OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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GomezAddams said:
If he were serious about doing everything in his power to keep Trump out of the White House, he'd have dropped out of the race and be doing his best to talk Clinton up to his supporters.
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How so?

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If his main objective is to ensure a Trump loss, his best bet is to stay in the game. Lets be clear, it's Clinton that needs Sanders supporters, and she would do well to start courting them now. It isn't Bernie's job to pimp Hil to his supporters (at least not before she makes some major effort to woo them herself).
 
Flamencology said:
I don't necessarily agree with that.
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Theodore said:
I'm not going there or I'll be here all day and I don't want to be here even this much, but I totally disagree with both your premise and your conclusion.
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Given the number of superdelegates who have pledged for Clinton, Sanders isn't going to be the Democratic Nominee. Lots of people like to believe that if Sanders wins the popular vote the superdelegates will change their vote to Sanders, but the superdelegates are precisely the people who hate Sanders the most (because their keepers hate Sanders).
 
GomezAddams said:
Given the number of superdelegates who have pledged for Clinton, Sanders isn't going to be the Democratic Nominee. Lots of people like to believe that if Sanders wins the popular vote the superdelegates will change their vote to Sanders, but the superdelegates are precisely the people who hate Sanders the most (because their keepers hate Sanders).
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Ok, sure. But he won't be splitting the vote. And Sanders supporters aren't about to start voting for Trump. Worst-case scenario is that they'll stay home. Which is bad, but I think that a few more months of Trump will convince people to show up at the polls.

Flipside, his presence and his success shows that more and more Americans (especially younger ones) are becoming increasingly open-minded about socialistic reforms. And that's a good thing that will continue to evolve throughout the 2020 and 2024 elections.
 
Given the number of superdelegates who have pledged for Clinton, Sanders isn't going to be the Democratic Nominee. Lots of people like to believe that if Sanders wins the popular vote the superdelegates will change their vote to Sanders, but the superdelegates are precisely the people who hate Sanders the most (because their keepers hate Sanders).
 
Given the number of superdelegates who have pledged for Clinton, Sanders isn't going to be the Democratic Nominee. Lots of people like to believe that if Sanders wins the popular vote the superdelegates will change their vote to Sanders, but the superdelegates are precisely the people who hate Sanders the most (because their keepers hate Sanders).
 
Flamencology said:
Ok, sure. But he won't be splitting the vote. And Sanders supporters aren't about to start voting for Trump. Worst-case scenario is that they'll stay home. Which is bad, but I think that a few more months of Trump will convince people to show up at the polls.

Flipside, his presence and his success shows that more and more Americans (especially younger ones) are becoming increasingly open-minded about socialistic reforms. And that's a good thing that will continue to evolve throughout the 2020 and 2024 elections.
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Your flawed assumption is that Clinton is a shoe-in against Trump in the general. This is not a given. Clinton and Trump both have huge disapproval ratings. You also assume that the more time goes on, Trump's momentum will falter. This does not seem to be the case. There may be enough democratic voters who dislike Clinton enough to simply not vote in the general. These will be, in effect, a vote for Trump.
 
GomezAddams said:
Your flawed assumption is that Clinton is a shoe-in against Trump in the general. This is not a given. Clinton and Trump both have huge disapproval ratings. You also assume that the more time goes on, Trump's momentum will falter. This does not seem to be the case. There may be enough democratic voters who dislike Clinton enough to simply not vote in the general. These will be, in effect, a vote for Trump.
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That may be true, but that's going to remain consistent whether Bernie stays in the race until the convention, or if he'd dropped out 3 months ago.
 
Tig said:
Reversed your statement since it is equally realistic. :wink:
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Not to mention all the republicans who have said they would vote for Clinton over Trump. I haven't seen any Sanders supporters say they would vote for Trump over Hil.
 
Tig said:
Reversed your statement since it is equally realistic. :wink:
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I'm voting for a third party candidate. Neither major party frontrunner interests me. I've been told by Clinton supporters that I'm now supporting Trump, and by Trump supporters that I'm now supporting Clinton. I'm very interested to see who wins, but at this point, I don't think either party can claim independent or Sanders votes for them. That said, I do think Clinton wins because women skew towards her and away from Trump.
 
335clone said:
Not to mention all the republicans who have said they would vote for Clinton over Trump. I haven't seen any Sanders supporters say they would vote for Trump over Hil.
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I have. A lot of them are quite willing to vote against Hillary.
 
yabba said:
Given the number of superdelegates who have pledged for Clinton, Sanders isn't going to be the Democratic Nominee. Lots of people like to believe that if Sanders wins the popular vote the superdelegates will change their vote to Sanders, but the superdelegates are precisely the people who hate Sanders the most (because their keepers hate Sanders).
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If Bernie wins the popular vote he and his supporters will be in a good position to threaten a third-party run if the superdelegates vote against him. That could make things interesting.
 
I don't think asking Bernie to step aside is in any way a fair measure of his commitment to keeping Trump out of the White House. Love him or hate him, Mr. Sanders has principles that he steadfastly clings to regardless of popular opinion or what standard political policy dictates. That is what has gotten him this far. To abandon his bid would be to abandon those principles, and that simply isn't going to happen.

In the event that Hillary succeeds in getting the nomination, I am sure he will implore his supporters to back her in the General Election. That would be much more consistent with both aspects.
 
jp_nyc said:
If Bernie wins the popular vote he and his supporters will be in a good position to threaten a third-party run if the superdelegates vote against him. That could make things interesting.
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I'd be shocked if he did that. I really would.

He chose to run as a Dem, and to play by those rules, and not as an independent. I don't think that he's the type of person who'd back out of that now, regardless of the outcome.

That, and even though he's critical of Clinton, I think he has enough of a 'big picture' worldview than to potentially split the vote.
 
What people publicly say now and what they do in a November voting booth can be quite different. Count on nothing at this point.
 
Tig said:
What people publicly say and what they do in a November voting booth can be quite different. Count on nothing at this point.
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That's true, but inconsistency in saying and doing would damage his reputation and legacy very much. And I think that he cares about that.
 
Kerouac said:
Obama couldn't clinch the nomination in 2008 either. He started catching up in precisely the same way that Bernie has, and he was being told to drop out then too.
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The difference is Obama was selling "Hope and Change," also known as business as usual for Wall Street so the Super Delegates with switching to him to appease the people. Bernie actually has policy in mind that would be good for the people but bad for Wall Street. The Super Delegates are bought and paid for by Wall Street. They won't switch this time.

I don't even know that Bernie would be able to change anything with Congress already bought and paid for, but I do think having him in office would raise awareness of the actual issues that are pressing to this country, instead of having people argue about who fucks who, what bathrooms they use, and abortion... still. That's why I think he is still in the race.
 
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