OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Chad said:
So what are those other core philosophies?

BTW, according to the latest Pew study, 62% of republicans are against abortion in most cases and 63% of republicans are against the supreme court decision to legalize gay marriage.

We have a doorman, it is the the immigration system. More people are killed each year by natural born Americans with guns than immigrants legally her or illegally here. Have we even had a discussion on gun violence? nope, just thoughts and prayer to the victims and families. How about we address real problems instead of using fear tactics to make up ones that aren't there.
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It would be fantastic if we could focus on real problems but that isn't what our political system does. It prefers the scare tactics. It wins elections and is easier than actually trying to fix real problems. Gun violence for example. It's not as simple as creating a good gun law, although that is certainly part of the equation. It also entails attention to education and not only children, job development, city infrastructure, proper social assistance programs reform, health care including emphasis on mental health, substance abuse and fraud, small business development, laws and enforcement as well as the prison system, and yeah, immigration plays a role too. The reasons people are violent to each other in this country are numerous. Maybe it starts with the hate and drawing lines in the sand. No politician is going to save us. Only us can save us.
 
Lerxst said:
@sunvalleylaw

Here's some progress. Chaffetz is pulling HR 621 after getting a deluge of calls from public lands users

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/...s/letters-from-the-west/article130291054.html

edit: OTOH he is still moving forward w/ HR622 that aims to eliminate the enforcement divisons of the BLM and Forrest Service and move enforcement responsibilities over to local law enforcement, aka the people who have zero interest in 'going all the way out there'
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That is good to hear. The lands use issue was one way the local dems were trying to get the younger crowd that were Bernie supporters involved with local efforts, and get more sustained involvement. It is an issue near and dear to all the mountain bikers, hikers, backcountry skiers, para-sailers, rafting enthusiasts/guides, fly fisherfolk, etc., etc. It was one of the key issues discussed at the 100 steps meeting we went to the other night.

WRT to the enforcement, the Custer County Sheriff (Stanley, Sawtooth Mountains, the new Boulder/White Clouds wilderness that I have mixed feelings about), and Blaine County Sheriff (Pioneer Mountains, Smokies, closer to SV) get involved with rescue stuff, but no way are they heading out on the trails to do enforcement. At least not regularly. They do not have the staff, nor the money. The Custer County Sheriff does patrol Redfish Lake regularly and enforce boating safety/compliance. Which is necessary considering the use that lake gets. Blaine County has a boat, but doesn't get out on the lakes in Blaine County (Alturas, Pettit) much. Hit and miss. The biggest Forest Service enforcement efforts you saw lately was to close mountain bikers out of the newly designated wilderness. I was really, really bummed it went that way instead of President Obama's monument proposal, which would have protected more land, and would have been more flexible in terms of use. The motos didn't like it though, as it would have restricted a lot more terrain from ATV/moto use.

EDIT: After looking briefly at the article, I have to chuckle that it is the hunters and fisherman that are noted, and the rest of us mountain hippies are lumped in as "other outdoor enthusiasts". LOL! That guy is normally a pretty good, balanced writer. But the powers that be are in the flatlands (Boise/Twin/Idaho Falls/Pocatello) that see the mountains as a place to grow their meat for over winter time, and to go fish. Generally, the recreation economy is left out of the considerations. Must be the same in Utah, which to me is most famous for champagne powder and mountain biking in Moab. Both of those activities are big tourism draws for that state.
 
Johnny N. said:
It would be fantastic if we could focus on real problems but that isn't what our political system does. It prefers the scare tactics. It wins elections and is easier than actually trying to fix real problems. Gun violence for example. It's not as simple as creating a good gun law, although that is certainly part of the equation. It also entails attention to education and not only children, job development, city infrastructure, proper social assistance programs reform, health care including emphasis on mental health, substance abuse and fraud, small business development, laws and enforcement as well as the prison system, and yeah, immigration plays a role too. The reasons people are violent to each other in this country are numerous. Maybe it starts with the hate and drawing lines in the sand. No politician is going to save us. Only us can save us.
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Factual counterpoint: good guns laws would solve a lot of the problems we have with gun violence. Because that been shown to work EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE CIVILIZED WORLD. Also, I will list below a few of the 'real problems" that our political system has tackled in recent history...

The Great Depression
European Facism and WW2
Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement
The Cold War
The Great Recession
 
Johnny N. said:
I agree with you but it still illustrates the point. Freedoms are great unless they are not in line with what I believe seems to be the ever too common thread. Is his speech any more hateful than those who destroyed property or who sprayed a girl with pepper spray? Hate is hate and it doesn't have to be defined by race. And that is where I'm getting concerned. Racial hate exists all over the world and always has. It's easy to see and most normal people oppose it. But now hatred seems to extend to anyone who believes differently. Citing this event was just an example of what I see. Not that I am a fan of whoever this guy is. I suppose he is free to speak but I doubt he has anything to say I want to hear. I'm not going to burn the place down if he were to come here. I'd just stay home.
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I don't disagree with you, but we are talking about UC Berkeley. Easily one of the top 5 most liberal Universities in the country, with a very long history of resisting and protesting against the right wing. Vietnam war? Check. Occupy? Check. Trevon Martin? Check. Black Lives Matter? Check. Hub of west coast Gay/lesbian/trans movement? You bet.

Suggesting that students and residents would 'just stay home' goes against everything they stand for.

Do you think the fundamentalists would 'just stay home' if Angela Davis and Michael Moore booked a speaking date at Liberty University?

Nah.
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
The Great Depression
European Facism and WW2
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The Great Depression really wasn't 'tackled' until after WW2 (specifically 'with' WW2) and there was a lot of support given to the leader of the European Facist movement by the rest of the world - some say in order to cause major military conflict in order to kick that manufacturing into overdrive and achieve the massive economic growth. It became a model really, didn't it? Just do it on a smaller scale but really sell it well so it seems necessary.
 
My congressman wrote me back. It's probably a form letter but it's cool to get a response.

Dear Mr. <smurfco>,

Thank you for contacting me about the President’s recent Executive Order suspending travel from seven Muslim majority countries and halting the U.S. refugee resettlement program. I appreciate your concerns and am grateful that you took the time to reach out to me.

I share your outrage and disbelief in the President’s actions. This egregious order amounts to a religious test for entry. Halting the refugee resettlement program will hurt thousands of vulnerable individuals looking to our country for a safe haven. We are a nation founded and strengthened by immigrants of all races and religions. We’ve prided ourselves on accepting multiculturalism and embraced the benefits of diversity. By issuing this order, the President has undermined our core values. He has also empowered ISIS in their efforts to recruit terrorists.

This Executive Order is dangerous to the security of the United States because it gives our enemies ground to claim that we are bigoted, and engaged in a war against Islam rather than against terrorism. It has also been criticized by numerous generals and foreign and domestic policy experts.

Despite our shared disgust with the President’s actions, we must not forget that America is a good and decent place. Our values are deeply held, and we must continue to stand against fear and prejudice. I am encouraged by the judicial stay preventing more immigrants, including legal permanent residents, from being deported. You may have also seen that Acting Attorney General Sally Yates refused to defend the order. While she was promptly replaced by the President, I am proud that she recognized the absurdity of this order and upheld her duty to defend the constitution.

You may be pleased to know that I am cosponsoring legislation that defunds this Executive Order. The Statue of Liberty Values Act (SOLVe) would render the order null, and prevent any federal funds from being used to enforce and implement any included policies. I also recently voiced my opposition on the floor of the House of Representatives, which can be viewed here.

History will note those who resisted and those who did not. We must not forget that by incorporating the values and cultures of immigrants in our American identity, we have bettered ourselves. It was Ronald Reagan who said, “Immigration and refugee policy is an important part of our past and fundamental to our national interest.” Please know that I will continue upholding the ideals that I have sworn to protect, and will oppose any regulation that attempts to do so.

If you have any additional questions regarding this or other issues, please do not hesitate to contact my office. You can sign up for my newsletter and find more information on my views and my work in Congress by visiting my official website at himes.house.gov.

Sincerely,
xdHiqPOtyIzpcNWLaR1LdHkcPpai8HamPOiK_RA0qxAn2np56h16u4SNo_C37XjL6O9wLqQ_dxSOZgbiJxH1yJ2sJRyLoASM8Zu9Xz33JYKko3PhBlcSKCf03XWD75ooZog2g3B_=s0-d-e1-ft

James A. Himes
Member of Congress
 
smorgdonkey said:
The Great Depression really wasn't 'tackled' until after WW2 (specifically 'with' WW2) and there was a lot of support given to the leader of the European Facist movement by the rest of the world - some say in order to cause major military conflict in order to kick that manufacturing into overdrive and achieve the massive economic growth. It became a model really, didn't it? Just do it on a smaller scale but really sell it well so it seems necessary.
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"Some people say..."
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
Factual counterpoint: good guns laws would solve a lot of the problems we have with gun violence. Because that been shown to work EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE CIVILIZED WORLD. Also, I will list below a few of the 'real problems" that our political system has tackled in recent history...

The Great Depression
European Facism and WW2
Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement
The Cold War
The Great Recession
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Define 'good' gun laws please. Depending on whom you ask, there are between 9K and 20K gun related laws on the books in this country today. There are plenty of people who want 'just one more', a complete ban. So, are those bad gun laws?
 
335clone said:
Define 'good' gun laws please. Depending on whom you ask, there are between 9K and 20K gun related laws on the books in this country today. There are plenty of people who want 'just one more', a complete ban. So, are those bad gun laws?
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Do your own research. It's easy and you might learn something.
 
335clone said:
No. Don't deflect.

I have done plenty of research over the years, and have my opinion.

You stated we need "good" gun laws, so I want to know what you are proposing that has not been done already.
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I'll pass. You are free to your own opinion and free to engage someone else in an pointless insular debate. If you'd like to challenge my assertion that other industrialized countries have less gun violence due to more restrictive gun ownership, I think that would be fairly entertaining....or you could "deflect".
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
I'll pass. You are free to your own opinion and free to engage someone else in an pointless insular debate. If you'd like to challenge my assertion that other industrialized countries have less gun violence due to more restrictive gun ownership, I think that would be fairly entertaining....or you could "deflect".
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LOL.

It's ok, you can just say you want to ban handguns. That is what you imply. I don't agree with that but that is my opinion. I'm all for background checks, especially regarding mental health issues. Waiting periods are common sense as well. I think there is some middle ground between Texas style "all guns are good guns" and my home state of Ca. view that "scary looking guns are the problem" I just don't believe in banning tools that have legitimate use.

I do find it interesting that you bring the subject up obliquely, then refuse to elaborate. Whatever. @Chad has voiced his opinion on guns loud and clear, and I respect that. We agree on many issues, but not that one. Maybe you don't want to open that can of worms, and I understand, but if you start the convo then at least be willing to discuss it. Otherwise, what is the point?

No hard feelings I hope.
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
Factual counterpoint: good guns laws would solve a lot of the problems we have with gun violence. Because that been shown to work EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE CIVILIZED WORLD.
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While I agree, we have to consider the long standing American love of guns and violent culture that is not part of so many other nations, such as those in Northern Europe, for example. The glamour of the Wild West lives on today. The United States was born of war and has been a warring nation ever since. From this background, it will take a long time of rapid cultural maturing before most gun laws curb violence. In other words, we have to grow up first.

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing our history, nor our country. I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-stupidity behind the gun.
 
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335clone said:
LOL.

It's ok, you can just say you want to ban handguns. That is what you imply. I don't agree with that but that is my opinion. I'm all for background checks, especially regarding mental health issues. Waiting periods are common sense as well. I think there is some middle ground between Texas style "all guns are good guns" and my home state of Ca. view that "scary looking guns are the problem" I just don't believe in banning tools that have legitimate use.

I do find it interesting that you bring the subject up obliquely, then refuse to elaborate. Whatever. @Chad has voiced his opinion on guns loud and clear, and I respect that. We agree on many issues, but not that one. Maybe you don't want to open that can of worms, and I understand, but if you start the convo then at least be willing to discuss it. Otherwise, what is the point?

No hard feelings I hope.
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Passive-aggressive gibberish. No hard feelings, tho...
 
Tig said:
While I agree, we have to consider the long standing American love of guns and violence culture that is not part of so many other nations, such as those in Northern Europe, for example. The glamour of the Wild West lives on today. The United States was born of war and has been a warring nation ever since. From this background, it will take a long time of rapid cultural maturing before most gun laws curb violence. In other words, we have to grow up first.

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing our history, nor our country. I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-stupidity behind the gun.
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I think my favorite take on this is the notion of "Liberal Hollywood", meanwhile roughly 50% of movies, to this day, are essentially a white guy and his magic gun saving the world.
 
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