OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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If it were a question of Liberty on a national scale I would agree with that, but violent protest on a local level against one individual who is not well liked is not a question of Liberty...and giving in to the violent demands sets a dangerous precedent for future protests...
 
This sentence describes most of social media at this point. I know my feed has it's fair share of people from both sides racing to be the first to share some bit of news (ranging from highly spun to downright made up) that makes the other side look bad. Continuously and vigorously driving the wedge deeper between people. ...

The fundamental flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that distance from truth in political claims forms a bell curve with the truth in the middle, and a truth to BS ratio declining proportionally to the distance from center equally from both sides of center.

Unfortunately, this on the face of it reasonable assumption has been exploited by conservatives to win the election, and in general, make people vote against their best interests. Conservatives realized that the way to win the minds of Joe America was to move the right hand side of the bullshit curve so far to the right, that what people would assume was the truth middle was still plenty far right into the conservative bullshit area. And worse, the actual truth, since it was located so far to the left of the perceived center, would be regarded as liberal "fake news" and "alternative facts".
 
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You know what kills me? Recently, due to my work situation, I have taken on a part time gig. I work with a bunch of guys from Ethiopia. It has reminded me of how much I respect immigrants. I can't imagine how difficult it is, to pack up and move half way across the world, to a country where, you may not know anyone, barely speak the language, somehow find a job and make it. The amount of strength and determination to do that is amazing. Sure, there is the chance of a better life here and more opportunities, but the prejudice and hate that face is crazy. All these guys are super nice, they work their asses off and most, if not all of them work more than one job because they can't live in this area on a single job's pay. What is crazy to me, is that they are forced to work their asses off, most of them don't have a car so they have to Uber to work for and $11 an hour job but they are so positive and upbeat. It is amazing to me.
 
See, my views aren't exclusive. If you want to be a Muslim, good for you. If you want to be a Christian, more power to you. If you want an abortion, go get one, if you are against abortion, don't get one. You wanna smoke a joint, fine by me, you don't, then don't. If you are a dude and love another dude and want to get married, throw me an invite, I'm sure it will be a blast, If you are a dude and are against gay marriage, don't marry another dude. My biggest problem with the right, is if you aren't in line with their views, fuck you, they are going to make a law so you have to be. Live and let live as long as you aren't hurting anyone, you're fine.


So you see my confusion. You are lumping all those registered on the red team into one group who believes the way you describe the right. So is it still live and let live or do all the reds need to live in their own state? You and I both know we can't have it all but having a lot is still better than most nations in the world. So all I'm saying is there is middle ground, that we have existed on for many years, and that the end is not near because of the election result. I'm just thinking we need to keep from self destructing until we can find the solution.
 
I'm all for free speech, but whomever decided it would be a good idea to bring that little shit stirrer to Berkeley either didn't have a clue what they were doing, or knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

It disheartens me that said little shit is getting any attention. He’s a professional provocateur. Liberal activists should have the sense to ignore his stupid shit and focus on issues that matter. Conservatives should have the sense to focus on someone who actually cares for their cause. Academics should have the sense to bring in speakers who aren’t blatantly self-serving. But America is full of stupid bubbles. And that little shit just rides from one to the next.
 
If we're going to take a middle of the road POV, let's get a few things out of the way.
For one thing you're failing to acknowledge that this gay, British/Greek (immigrant) is the same person who has been banned by twitter for racist & misogynistic attacks, outspoken harsh critic of homosexuality/rights & happens to be the senior editor of the, to put it mildly, far right Breitbart who's been pretty instrumental in defining the alt-right movement and this speaking tour has been a continuation of much of that ideology. Important context because many see this as hate speech & not just free speech....hence the protests.

A second important thing to acknowledge is that while the crowd was likely mostly students what has often been happening at these protests is that small groups of people use these protests as cover to commit violence and that's their sole motive for being there. This is something that has been happening in the US and Europe. These are public protests that anyone can attend & are often planned on social media for all to see. Do other normally peaceful protesters take part or incite violence & destruction? entirely possible....welcome to the mob mentality.

Should this gay, British/Greek (immigrant)'s possibly hate speech be respected or protected by the protesters? IDK if I'd go that far.
Either way it is the ultimate troll.


I agree with you but it still illustrates the point. Freedoms are great unless they are not in line with what I believe seems to be the ever too common thread. Is his speech any more hateful than those who destroyed property or who sprayed a girl with pepper spray? Hate is hate and it doesn't have to be defined by race. And that is where I'm getting concerned. Racial hate exists all over the world and always has. It's easy to see and most normal people oppose it. But now hatred seems to extend to anyone who believes differently. Citing this event was just an example of what I see. Not that I am a fan of whoever this guy is. I suppose he is free to speak but I doubt he has anything to say I want to hear. I'm not going to burn the place down if he were to come here. I'd just stay home.
 
So you see my confusion. You are lumping all those registered on the red team into one group who believes the way you describe the right. So is it still live and let live or do all the reds need to live in their own state? You and I both know we can't have it all but having a lot is still better than most nations in the world. So all I'm saying is there is middle ground, that we have existed on for many years, and that the end is not near because of the election result. I'm just thinking we need to keep from self destructing until we can find the solution.

Tell me one of my examples where there are republicans in office who agree with what I said? Any pro choice republicans in office? Any pro gay marriage republicans in office? Any pro marijuana republicans in office? If there are so many folks on the red team who are ok with what I said, why do they not have anyone in office who does? If there are so many on the red team that agree with my examples, how in the world did Trump get elected? And for the few that are ok with it, that is why my Blue States of America doors are wide open, come on in, pull up a chair, lite a doobie if that is your choice and stay a while. I am ok with discussing how to spend the money the government takes in on taxes but I am not ok with treating folks differently because of their religion, sexual orientation or country of origin and the current republican regime is. And they didn't put guns to anyone's heads to get into office. People voted for them because that is what they want.
 
I agree with you but it still illustrates the point. Freedoms are great unless they are not in line with what I believe seems to be the ever too common thread. Is his speech any more hateful than those who destroyed property or who sprayed a girl with pepper spray? Hate is hate and it doesn't have to be defined by race. And that is where I'm getting concerned. Racial hate exists all over the world and always has. It's easy to see and most normal people oppose it. But now hatred seems to extend to anyone who believes differently. Citing this event was just an example of what I see. Not that I am a fan of whoever this guy is. I suppose he is free to speak but I doubt he has anything to say I want to hear. I'm not going to burn the place down if he were to come here. I'd just stay home.

I think you have to look at what Lerxst said in his second paragraph. I'm not sure the people committing the violence and destruction were really their to protest. Maybe they were, but after seeing how many folks marched in Washington the day after the inauguration, with no incidences, I think it was more than likely some folks who wanted to wreck shit and used the protest as a cover. My wife has some cool pictures from the DC march where crowd control officers were standing on vans, taking pictures of the crowd with protesters phones.
 
I stay out of this thread for many reasons, but I have to say a few things.

Those lamenting the fact that "liberals" are doing everything they can to remove trump from office seem to have quickly forgotten the 8 years of Obama trying to lead against an obstructionist Congress and the millions paranoid morons sporting "Obama is not my president" bumper stickers and stocking up on ammo to fend off the Gestapo coming to take their guns and put them in FEMA camps.

Obama got labeled a "dictator" for signing the fewest executive orders of any modern president. Trump is a man of action for being on pace to write more of them than any 10 presidents combined.

What's good for the goose...

The hypocrisy of the Right is astounding to me. I read a post on FB that read "Trump is YOUR president, like it or not".

Really now?

Obama wasn't "yours", but Trump has to be mine? I don't think so. Homie don't play dat.


Let me clear up one thing first. My statement about doing everything they can to oppose everything Republicans do until he is out of office wasn't a generalization. It was a quote from an individual on Facebook who has made it his mission. Certainly his right but my question is, how is that going to make anything better? Nor does my citing that comment support anything said or done by the extreme other end. Nor am I comparing the opposing "not my President" crowds. I'm asking that if we agree that it wasn't right for them to do it, how can it be right for us to do it? So that leads back to my original point, when can we stop pointing our fingers at the other side and start finding the solution?
 
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People voted for them because that is what they want.


People vote for them because that is how the political world seems to work. And that is what I keep saying. To be on the red team you have to vote for the person who is going to vote this way on all of these issues and the opposite to be on the blue team. But that's what I'm saying. In real life, people walking around in a red or blue shirt don't think in those terms.
 
For something a bit lighter:

16422585_1199398080095516_3927448658171137237_o.jpg
 
People vote for them because that is how the political world seems to work. And that is what I keep saying. To be on the red team you have to vote for the person who is going to vote this way on all of these issues and the opposite to be on the blue team. But that's what I'm saying. In real life, people walking around in a red or blue shirt don't think in those terms.

I would never vote for a Democrat that was hell bent on overturning Roe V Wade or opposed gay marriage. It is also why my doors would be open. I think if we forced everyone into a red state or blue state, we would see the red states start to shrink and shrink because I don't think most people want to deny folks rights and once they saw that world, they wouldn't want to be in it. But maybe that is the liberal in me, thinking that deep down, everyone is good and deserves a chance.
 
Let me clear up one thing first. My statement about doing everything they can to oppose everything Republicans do until he is out of office wasn't a generalization. It was a quote from an individual on Facebook who has made it his mission. Certainly his right but my question is, how is that going to make anything better? Nor does my citing that comment support anything said or done by the extreme other end. Nor am I comparing the opposing "not my President" crowds. I'm asking that if we agree that it wasn't right for them to do it, how can it be right for us to do it? So that leads back to my original point, when can we stop pointing our fingers at the other side and start finding the solution?
The solution is to for the Supreme Court to rule the election invalid and to schedule a special election to undo this madness as quickly as possible. Of course that won't happen, but it's what should be done.

With all of the information that's coming to light, it's quite clear that this electoral process was tainted and illegitimate. The system failed on a grand scale.

We have a situation that is untenable and will only get worse.
 
The fundamental flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that distance from truth in political claims forms a bell curve with the truth in the middle, and a truth to BS ratio declining proportionally to the distance from center equally from both sides of center.

Unfortunately, this on the face of it reasonable assumption has been exploited by conservatives to win the election, and in general, make people vote against their best interests. Conservatives realized that the way to win the minds of Joe America was to move the right hand side of the bullshit curve so far to the right, that what people would assume was the truth middle was still plenty far right into the conservative bullshit area. And worse, the actual truth, since it was located so far to the left of the perceived center, would be regarded as liberal "fake news" and "alternative facts".


Spare me the false equivalency BS. Once it's false it's false and if someone is knowingly using false or misleading information to make their point it doesn't really matter how far along the curve they are. Bottom line question is, we are where we are and continuing to move the curve farther in any direction is not the solution.
 
It's fascinating to me that there are still people who feel compelled to breathlessly warn others of the great peril our nation faces from "liberal hypocrisy". I feel like there may be larger threats at play these days...but that just me.
 
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I agree with you but it still illustrates the point. Freedoms are great unless they are not in line with what I believe seems to be the ever too common thread. Is his speech any more hateful than those who destroyed property or who sprayed a girl with pepper spray? Hate is hate and it doesn't have to be defined by race. And that is where I'm getting concerned. Racial hate exists all over the world and always has. It's easy to see and most normal people oppose it. But now hatred seems to extend to anyone who believes differently. Citing this event was just an example of what I see. Not that I am a fan of whoever this guy is. I suppose he is free to speak but I doubt he has anything to say I want to hear. I'm not going to burn the place down if he were to come here. I'd just stay home.

I don't agree that the destructive actions of a minority of protesters is what defines all of the protesters in attendance or justifies an idea of hate/stupidity tit-for-tat; no one here is advocating that any of the violent or destructive acts that were committed are OK or tolerable or condoned because Milo spews his brand of propaganda.
 
It's fascinating to me that there are still people who feel compelled to breathlessly warn others of the great peril our nation faces from "liberal hypocrisy". I feel like there may be larger threats at play these days...but that just me.
It's possible that we are witnessing the last, gasping breaths of Nationalism (I could be wrong, but I don't think so)...I just hope @Chad can survive it...:wink:

:Wave:
 
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