OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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MonkeyZero said:
I'm not saying I didn't know. I'm well aware thanks to my own research. But, the key things I value usually don't change based on the candidate. I hold very Republican (read christian) beliefs and I just can't vote in a direction that goes against those. Specifically late term abortion being among the major ones.
I heard/read things that scared me on both sides. The Democrat side just scared me more.

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I hear you, but feel that that's a battle that you're not going to win. And politicians know that voters like yourself are stuck to that, and will do anything to manipulate and take advantage of it.
 
MonkeyZero said:
Most of you guys know way more details about specific issues that concern you, and I respect that. I have always voted based on a set of core beliefs for the representative that also holds those beliefs.
I don't get into what is said between the candidates while campaigning. It sickens me that they can't focus on what they'll do for us and what they hold high and instead they stoop to petty name calling, false allegations, and trying to belittle each other.
Tell me what you value and let me decide. I don't care what you think of the other candidates.

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I'm not sure where you get your information from, but Clinton clearly laid out her plans, with details. Trump on the other hand, only said trust me, I know more than everyone else and I'll fix it. The only things I know Trump wanted to accomplish were, build a wall on the Mexican border, ban Muslims from entering the country "until we can figure them out," get rid of lobbyists (which he then named to his transition team before the election week was over), repeal Obamacare which he now says he may just amend it, put Hillary in jail (not sure if it was because of Benghazi or the email server, but either way, I hope he plans on jailing W because far more embassy officials were killed under his watch and he had multiple private email servers), he is single-handedly going to defeat ISIS because he knows more about them than our generals do, bring jobs back (still not sure how seeing as he ships them out himself). How do you feel if you are a general and he is now your commander in chief after saying he knows more about your job than you do?

I don't remember her calling him names, but I don't think he ever said Hillary without putting "crooked" in front of it. But hey, at least you get to keep your guns. I wonder how long the NRA is going to keep saying the left is coming for guns without it ever happening? I wonder how long the right will keep believing it?
 
Chad said:
I'm not sure where you get your information from, but Clinton clearly laid out her plans, with details. Trump on the other hand, only said trust me, I know more than everyone else and I'll fix it. The only things I know Trump wanted to accomplish were, build a wall on the Mexican border, ban Muslims from entering the country "until we can figure them out," get rid of lobbyists (which he then named to his transition team before the election week was over), repeal Obamacare which he now says he may just amend it, put Hillary in jail (not sure if it was because of Benghazi or the email server, but either way, I hope he plans on jailing W because far more embassy officials were killed under his watch and he had multiple private email servers), he is single-handedly going to defeat ISIS because he knows more about them than our generals do, bring jobs back (still not sure how seeing as he ships them out himself). How do you feel if you are a general and he is now your commander in chief after saying he knows more about your job than you do?

I don't remember her calling him names, but I don't think he ever said Hillary without putting "crooked" in front of it. But hey, at least you get to keep your guns. I wonder how long the NRA is going to keep saying the left is coming for guns without it ever happening? I wonder how long the right will keep believing it?
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And therein lies the biggest problem. Who can truly know what/who to believe. And that's why I vote the way I do. It is what it is.
And yes, keeping my right to bear arms is another important issue for me.
Do I think there would ever be a gun ban like Australia? Possibly. And that's enough to swing me.

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MonkeyZero said:
And therein lies the biggest problem. Who can truly know what/who to believe. And that's why I vote the way I do. It is what it is.
And yes, keeping my right to bear arms is another important issue for me.
Do I think there would ever be a gun ban like Australia? Possibly. And that's enough to swing me.

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How would all the privately held guns be collected, may I ask?
 
Chad said:
The smartest move Reagan ever made was convince the religious folks that the GOP was the party of Christ.
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I don't believe that. But that side does hold SOME of my values. Way more than the other side.
Based on my wife's occupation, and her being the main bread winner in our family, we should vote Democrat. But we don't because we trade some things for not being taxed in a higher bracket even though we basically live paycheck to paycheck. We don't literally, but the extra taxes would kill us. Among other things.

I'm not interested in justifying my vote other than to say I do because of a very small, specific set of concerns.
Am I a racist/sexist/homophobe bc of that? No. Is Trump? Maybe.
He's not even sworn in yet. As Hillary said, give him a chance to lead. If he screws up, we fix it. Just like EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT THAT HAS SCREWED STUFF UP BEFORE.

Wanna know what I told my 10 year old about Trump? Nothing. Bc he's 10. And by the time he can vote he'll make his own decision and we'll be 8 years in the future.
Yes, some potential problems could last longer than that, but I live with issues that came to be before I could vote and guess what? I'm still alive, employed, and happy.

I just can't understand the over reactions in a lot of cases. But clearly I'm alone in that.
*rolleyes*

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LeftyTom said:
How would all the privately held guns be collected, may I ask?
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A lot wouldn't be. It's not hard to hide them. Especially if they're not registered. But it sure would make them hard to use for sport if they were illegal wouldn't it?
How did they do it in Australia? o_O

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MonkeyZero said:
A lot wouldn't be. It's not hard to hide them. Especially if they're not registered. But it sure would make them hard to use for sport if they were illegal wouldn't it?
How did they do it in Australia? o_O

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i believe only handguns are strictly forbidden in australia. other than the cities, i believe that rifles and shotguns are still legal there.
 
For the record, you can own and use guns in Australia. There is a lot of red tape involved that would definitely be unacceptable to USA gun enthusiasts. But guns are not "banned" and they didn't go around collecting them when the laws were made more stringent.

Also consider that the population of Australia is what, less than 10% of the US? So there isn't much of a comparison.
 
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Chad said:
The smartest move Reagan ever made was convince the religious folks that the GOP was the party of Christ.
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Well, smart for his party. Since then the majority of their voters have been "Christian" middle aged middle class (and upwards) white men.
It's clearly worked, but the values they cling to are clearly not Christian in any way (and that double standard is a major reason why I'm an atheist).
I'll stop there before I cause a proper shitstorm. :embarrassed:
 
Dexter Inferno said:
Well, smart for his party. Since then the majority of their voters have been "Christian" middle aged middle class (and upwards) white men.
It's clearly worked, but the values they cling to are clearly not Christian in any way (and that double standard is a major reason why I'm an atheist).
I'll stop there before I cause a proper shitstorm. :embarrassed:
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yea....i left christianity BECAUSE of the right wing extremists.
 
mongooz said:
yea....i left christianity BECAUSE of the right wing extremists.
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Nothing wrong with the religion itself really, but what a lot of people tend to forget is you don't get to pick and choose what you like and don't like.
You can't be a tolerant being on one hand, and then slag off disabled people the next moment. That's not Christianity, that's being a selfish bastard.
And that's where Trump will eventually fail. Good christians aren't racists, xenophobes and all round idiots.
Mind you I haven't seen a good Christian in years, Certainly not where I live.

And actually - I know more decent people that are atheists like myself, than proper religious people. Unlike them I actually have something called free will and a functioning mind. Too many "religious" people are just braindead followers who will join in no matter what you say (hey, Trump anyone?).
 
Dexter Inferno said:
Mind you I haven't seen a good Christian in years, Certainly not where I live.
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I find the good ones typically prefer the term “Mormon.”

But I know what you’re saying. Most of the pleasant Christians I know live outside the USA. Of course I probably know lots of pleasant Christians and just don’t realize it. Aside from the fundies most American Christians don’t seem to talk about it anymore. When I taught at a Jesuit university the only time you’d have noticed the Christians was Ash Wednesday.
 
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