OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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I feel sorry for the coal miners who've bought the Republican's "war on coal" scam hook, line, and sinker.

For those of you not in an area where coal is big, what has happened is that the coal industry is in the toilet because of cheap natural gas (which is cheap because of fracking). The Republicans have told coal miners that coal is expensive to burn because Obama hates coal and is using excessive regulation and an out of control EPA to kill coal. They promised the coal miners that they'd remove regulation and gut the EPA which will reduce the cost of using coal.

What they didn't tell them is that without regulation and an EPA, fracking will become even more common, and will drive the price of natural gas down even more than the cost of coal will drop. The net result will be the even faster demise of coal.

In fact, expect to see federal law enacted soon to prohibit states and cities from regulating fracking.

Worse, dirt cheap natural gas will destroy what little progress solar and wind have made in this country.
 
Flamencology said:
Really? I may support it, then. Hmmm.
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335clone said:
No, people in general suck. You cannot be ashamed of another's actions unless you admit to being complicit. Shame is a personified emotion, as is guilt.
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Yes I can, because ALL people make associations and have assumptions. I'm a heterosexual balding soft in the middle white middle class male. As such I can all but guarantee that most of the folks I see assume I supported/voted for Trump. I'm admittedly doing it on a daily basis...even with women as I know that nearly 50% of them voted for Trump and MORE THAN 50% of white women voted for Trump.

I know by my vote that I wasn't complicit, but I am ashamed to be associated with those that were...those being all the middle class white folks that voted for him although they claim to not support his racist generalizations, misogyny, xenophobia, islamophobia, and general fear mongering. They were so blinded by the Hillary hate machine that they voted the least qualified candidate in history into the most powerful office against the most qualified candidate in history. No caveats needed, Hillary was the better choice by leaps and bounds over anything the Republicans ran up the flagpole. I'm ashamed of their inability to see through the bullshit. If they really wanted to vote in protest (as some like to claim) then they should have voted for Johnson and Stein to ensure equal funding for MORE option and GREATER potential to increase our options in the future.

Right now our future is clearly in the process of turning around and embracing many ugly aspects of our past.

I'm out again though...gotta stay away...stay away...away
 
GomezAddams said:
Worse, dirt cheap natural gas will destroy what little progress solar and wind have made in this country.
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Maybe it will for a few years. But fracking isn’t cheap or easy. The last fracking boom tanked because the producers flooded the market and the Saudis can’t afford to cut production, so it wasn’t profitable to keep digging wells. Slashing regulation might get fracking going again, but that could kick off a price war because Russia and the Saudis can’t afford to stop pumping oil and gas. Once the easy shale gas fields are opened producers will be in the same position as oil and coal companies, only able to go after more challenging and fields that cost more. Meanwhile China and India can’t cut back on solar because environmental problems are destabilizing their governments, and because Indians are sick of importing coal. Germans won’t give up their solar plan unless the EU crumbles and their economy goes with it. So huge solar projects in China, India, and Germany will drive the cost of PV solar below natural gas. And all those fossil fuel workers will be angry and out of work again.
 
I still think that there are dangers associated with fracking. One thing that stands out in that field/subject is that one major player in the fracking industry had refused to allow tracking on his land which spoke volumes to me. Poisoned water and seismic activity...come on, we don't really need that.
 
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Dogsinotpalc said:
If they really wanted to vote in protest (as some like to claim) then they should have voted for Johnson and Stein to ensure equal funding for MORE option and GREATER potential to increase our options in the future.
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Which is exactly what I did. That didn't stop personal attacks from both the left and the right throughout the entire campaign. Because my vote was allegedly property of their candidate, and voting for a third party was giving a vote to the other major party candidate.
 
mongooz said:
except if it's done on federal land within the state. there is a moritorium on fracking in Penn., except in the allegheny NATIONAL forest. it's being fracked to fuck. almost not even worth going there any more.
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PA has not passed a state-wide moratorium to my knowledge. There are a couple regional moratoriums.
There's currently a group of doctors pushing for state-wide action at the same time the industry and it's backers are trying to squash the Delaware river basin ban
NY, VT and MD have passed state-wide bans out that way but there are still active wells is PA.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
Yes I can, because ALL people make associations and have assumptions. I'm a heterosexual balding soft in the middle white middle class male. As such I can all but guarantee that most of the folks I see assume I supported/voted for Trump. I'm admittedly doing it on a daily basis...even with women as I know that nearly 50% of them voted for Trump and MORE THAN 50% of white women voted for Trump.

I know by my vote that I wasn't complicit, but I am ashamed to be associated with those that were...those being all the middle class white folks that voted for him although they claim to not support his racist generalizations, misogyny, xenophobia, islamophobia, and general fear mongering. They were so blinded by the Hillary hate machine that they voted the least qualified candidate in history into the most powerful office against the most qualified candidate in history. No caveats needed, Hillary was the better choice by leaps and bounds over anything the Republicans ran up the flagpole. I'm ashamed of their inability to see through the bullshit. If they really wanted to vote in protest (as some like to claim) then they should have voted for Johnson and Stein to ensure equal funding for MORE option and GREATER potential to increase our options in the future.

Right now our future is clearly in the process of turning around and embracing many ugly aspects of our past.

I'm out again though...gotta stay away...stay away...away
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Well feel free to appropriate their guilt based on the assumptions you choose to make. Maybe it's where you live, but here I assume people voted against Trump unless I have reason to believe the opposite. I fit your description minus the balding, and I have no feelings of shame because I know how I voted and how I treat people.


Anger? Sure. Disgust? You bet. Shame? Nope. Guilt? Nada.

Shame and guilt are emotions triggered by your own actions, not those of others, by definition.

a·shamed
  1. embarrassed or guilty because of one's actions, characteristics, or associations.
    "you should be ashamed of yourself"
    synonyms: sorry, shamefaced, abashed, sheepish, guilty, contrite, remorseful, repentant, penitent,regretful, rueful, apologetic; More
(you can never really leave, muahahahaha)
 
GomezAddams said:
I feel sorry for the coal miners who've bought the Republican's "war on coal" scam hook, line, and sinker.

For those of you not in an area where coal is big, what has happened is that the coal industry is in the toilet because of cheap natural gas (which is cheap because of fracking). The Republicans have told coal miners that coal is expensive to burn because Obama hates coal and is using excessive regulation and an out of control EPA to kill coal. They promised the coal miners that they'd remove regulation and gut the EPA which will reduce the cost of using coal.

What they didn't tell them is that without regulation and an EPA, fracking will become even more common, and will drive the price of natural gas down even more than the cost of coal will drop. The net result will be the even faster demise of coal.

In fact, expect to see federal law enacted soon to prohibit states and cities from regulating fracking.

Worse, dirt cheap natural gas will destroy what little progress solar and wind have made in this country.
Click to expand...

Crap...I'm back.

I do and don't feel sorry for them. The tide change in energy has been evident for decades now. Staying in the coal industry on any level is showing poor judgement. I assume these aren't bad or stupid people, but they are myopic in their dedication to their bubble. There are other energy jobs that they could apply for and/or train for. There is no mandate on where they have to live. Between those basic options of other jobs and moving to and living in other places, being immobile about your life can and clearly will lead to the end of that way of life.

So, it's time for coal workers to look for other opportunities and raise their children to do the same (actually that time was decades ago). While I know the engineering behind a lot of alternative fuels is likely beyond the scope of many coal workers (as it is with me), there are associated construction and maintenance jobs within renewal energy. I would totally back a government mandate that required those companies to employ displaced or soon-to-be displaced fossil fuel workers. Progress scares way too many people and the Republican/conservative politicians and powers that be pretty much stand alone using progress as part of their fear cannon to get votes...and it still fucking works!?!

Again, I do and don't feel sorry for these folks. If my line of work shows signs of drying up, I'm ready to explore other options and/or get re-educated to ensure I can find other employment. I sure as hell wouldn't vote against my interests just because a politician promised me anything...except for at least $1 million (tax free, now and future) in hand if I promised to vote for them (at the time of said promise). I'd vote for just about anyone that did that. :thu: But that's less a promise and more of straight business transaction of cash for vote.

I think Hillary made and spent significantly more than Trump. If she had just used to directly buy votes we'd all be better off, regardless of our ability/inability to see it.

Ta ta all...yeah, right...
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
Which is exactly what I did. That didn't stop personal attacks from both the left and the right throughout the entire campaign. Because my vote was allegedly property of their candidate, and voting for a third party was giving a vote to the other major party candidate.
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Stop making it personal. It wasn't that your vote belonged to either major candidate, it is the dilution of the voting base that is the problem. That is why both sides claimed a 3rd party vote helped the other side, because it was the loss of a potential vote for theirs meaning their competition needed one less vote to beat them.
 
smorgdonkey said:
I still think that there are dangers associated with tracking. One thing that stands out in that field/subject is that one major player in the tracking industry had refused to allow tracking on his land which spoke volumes to me. Poisoned water and seismic activity...come on, we don't really need that.
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Autocorrect messed with your post...but yeah fracking is shite. Water is the most valuable resource we have despite the notion that it is endlessly abundant (which it isn't). It's still amazing to me that we can't beyond the dependence on fossil fuels and other non-renewable resources. Solar, wind, water...as long as have an atmosphere there will be significant amounts of these available. If we move away from fossil/non-renewable fuels, we will also greatly diminish fucking up our water supply. NONE of us can live without water in general and clean drinkable water in specific.

The environment is a top priority for EVERYONE whether they like it or not.
 
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Lerxst said:
PA has not passed a state-wide moratorium to my knowledge. There are a couple regional moratoriums.
There's currently a group of doctors pushing for state-wide action at the same time the industry and it's backers are trying to squash the Delaware river basin ban
NY, VT and MD have passed state-wide bans out that way but there are still active wells is PA.
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then it must have been a temporary one. it was about 4 years ago. haven't been there since.
 
335clone said:
Stop making it personal. It wasn't that your vote belonged to either major candidate, it is the dilution of the voting base that is the problem. That is why both sides claimed a 3rd party vote helped the other side, because it was the loss of a potential vote for theirs meaning their competition needed one less vote to beat them.
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It's my vote. How is that not personal?

The dilution of the voting base is a good thing. The more people that participate, the better.
 
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