OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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mongooz said:
mister trump had better mind his p's and q's. there is a point at which free speech becomes sedition.
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Mister Trump has tens of millions of crazy followers who have personal armories. Some of them have secondary and tertiary armories buried in forests. Nobody’s going to risk setting those people off unless Trump literally declares war on the federal government.
 
jp_nyc said:
Mister Trump has tens of millions of crazy followers who have personal armories. Some of them have secondary and tertiary armories buried in forests. Nobody’s going to risk setting those people off unless Trump literally declares war on the federal government.
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And there are those ready to do just that; they have been ready since 2008.
 
jp_nyc said:
Mister Trump has tens of millions of crazy followers who have personal armories. Some of them have secondary and tertiary armories buried in forests. Nobody’s going to risk setting those people off unless Trump literally declares war on the federal government.
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And he might truly be enough of a sociopath/psychopath to encourage that type of behavior...incite that violence and go hide during the ensuing melee. I may actually hate this guy and wish him real harm...that's worrisome.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
He and his supporters, not unlike Dubya's supporters back in the day, seem unable to believe that a person can be smart enough and prepared enough to be able answer the myriad of questions that might be thrown their way during a debate. Romney didn't have these problems. McCain was good to go. But Trump can't speak to the facts or prep for debates worth a damn so again, the only way he can lose is if he's being conspired against.
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It's sad how often this Kurt V. quote is apropos:

"The big problem with dumb bastards is that they don't believe there's such a thing as 'smart'."
--- Kurt Vonnegut
 
Gary Blanchard said:
And there are those ready to do just that; they have been ready since 2008.
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It goes back farther than that. These people have been ready for war since Ruby Ridge in 1992. And that was just when the media and government started paying attention. They may have started years earlier.
 
I for one am very concerned about his comments yesterday. There are enough people that could cause real problems if the situation is left to simmer. Unfortunately DT seems to think this is all another reality show and you need to have cliffhangers to keep the audience riveted. While I doubt there would be any major issues around here and probably not in most big urban areas there are places were the number of people with arms and an attitude that is even more extreme than Trumps would use this as an excuse to take matters into their own hands. It has happened before.
If the guy you think should be president isn't and the woman you think should be in jail is president and those "immigrants" are responsible....it could get very ugly. And if the stand down command doesn't come from Trump I doubt those folks will listen...they already don't like politicians so having the GOP accept the results for Trump would likely be irrelevant for them.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail but I see scenarios were this could be bad so I cannot just dismiss his comments as that of a sore loser (which they are but still...)
 
It occurs to me that everyone saying that Trump did okay last night might just be giving him props for not starting out acting bat shit crazy and escalating from there. As in, he gets points for behaving like a human being is expected to behave in such a situation.
Sure, if you can articulate your side of an argument in a clear and concise manner, that's debating. Win or lose your position, playing it by the rules is a good thing. He may have pulled that off for a while - a lot longer than in previous debates.
But let's not look past the content of that side of the argument. Good debating doesn't mean there are good ideas behind the argument. And, in my opinion, even if he had the greatest idea in history and a solid plan to back it up, I'd ave a hard time trusting him.
I think he just wants to win at politics but has no idea how win at governing.

EDIT: When I say 'everyone' I don't mean members here and I don't mean it to be argumentative to any that have given him any credit for his performance last night. I was reading an article online when this thought was triggered.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
@sunvalleylaw

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...037dba38301_story.html?utm_term=.e874d3944d69

I saw this on FB because you liked it. Would love to get your thoughts on it here.
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That was posted/linked by a old, very close friend of mine with whom I was an appellate judicial clerk in Washington State at the beginning of my career. I marked it to read thoroughly and consider later. Need to get some pleadings out at the moment, and keep focused. But will come back to it. My initial reaction is, depending on the analysis and support of the "waiver" argument, it could be a useful play to break the gridlock on the issue, even if it would need to be litigated. If it were litigated. I would guess that the Supremes would hold that the process should move forward, presuming that the Senate was given proper notice, opportunity to respond, and failed to act, or refused to act. After all, the Supremes do, I would think, believe in their role as a major branch of the government. But that is just a reaction and guess. Will want to study it more later.
 
GDSmithTX said:
It's sad how often this Kurt V. quote is apropos:

"The big problem with dumb bastards is that they don't believe there's such a thing as 'smart'."
--- Kurt Vonnegut
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Actually, I think they believe it, despise it (assuming we all think that they're dumb bastards), fear it at some level, and want to destroy it (to prove that we're not better than they are).
 
jp_nyc said:
It goes back farther than that. These people have been ready for war since Ruby Ridge in 1992. And that was just when the media and government started paying attention. They may have started years earlier.
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These people started before the civil rights movement...basically with the KKK. They may not see that or agree with that, but that's basically their roots.
 
dodgechargerfan said:
It occurs to me that everyone saying that Trump did okay last night might just be giving him props for not starting out acting bat shit crazy and escalating from there. As in, he gets points for behaving like a human being is expected to behave in such a situation.
Sure, if you can articulate your side of an argument in a clear and concise manner, that's debating. Win or lose your position, playing it by the rules is a good thing. He may have pulled that off for a while - a lot longer than in previous debates.
But let's not look past the content of that side of the argument. Good debating doesn't mean there are good ideas behind the argument. And, in my opinion, even if he had the greatest idea in history and a solid plan to back it up, I'd ave a hard time trusting him.
I think he just wants to win at politics but has no idea how win at governing.
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In high school and higher education, good debating is partially based on knowing both sides of an argument and using that to win. Knowing the counter argument to every argument. And knowing the quality of the various arguments. Know that allows you to use the strongest factual arguments instead of relying on lies, half truths, rhetoric, and hyperbole. Unfortunately that goes out the window (and pretty much always has) during actual political debates between real politicians.

Over the course the last few decades, however, the Democrats have done a better job of minimizing use of or reliance on inflammatory bullshit and trying to focus more on the issues than the Republicans. Unfortunately, the Republicans have mastered maximizing inflammatory bullshit to the point of ending up with having Trump as the latest and WORST face of their party. Any shred of reason that remained slowly but surely fell away during the Republican primaries and is now completely gone. The Republicans are now a fringe right-wing organization, despite their size.

Their heroes, our founding fathers and Reagan, would never support someone like Trump. Their words, action, and history clearly bare this out.
 
I think the part of the debate that actually hit it home was the question about Mosul. Like her or not, Clinton obviously understands what is going on and spoke about the topic like a person who understood the situation. Trump babbled and said disaster, tremendous, believe me and Iran. He clearly has no clue what is going on there and clearly has no business being on that stage. As much as I disliked every candidate from the GOP, all of the others were at least qualified. Say what you want about her, she handled the debate like a president should and Trump handled like a 6 year old boy throwing a fit.
 
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