OMG Politics, I'm over it already Mk III, The Search for Spock

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sleewell said:
quotes from republicans on trumps tariffs:

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) called it “bad news” and predicted imminent retaliation from the key U.S. allies. Senate Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said there is "mounting evidence that these tariffs will harm Americans." And Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) warned that similar policies 90 years ago sparked the Great Depression.

“This is dumb. Europe, Canada, and Mexico are not China, and you don’t treat allies the same way you treat opponents,” Sasse said. “‘Make America Great Again’ shouldn’t mean ‘Make America 1929 Again.'"

“This is a big mistake. These tariffs will raise prices and destroy manufacturing jobs, especially auto jobs, which are one-third of all Tennessee manufacturing jobs,” said Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), who said tariffs are “basically higher taxes on American consumers.”
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https://www.americanbullion.com/is-trump-the-modern-herbert-hoover/
 
sleewell said:
quotes from republicans on trumps tariffs:

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) called it “bad news” and predicted imminent retaliation from the key U.S. allies. Senate Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said there is "mounting evidence that these tariffs will harm Americans." And Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) warned that similar policies 90 years ago sparked the Great Depression.

“This is dumb. Europe, Canada, and Mexico are not China, and you don’t treat allies the same way you treat opponents,” Sasse said. “‘Make America Great Again’ shouldn’t mean ‘Make America 1929 Again.'"

“This is a big mistake. These tariffs will raise prices and destroy manufacturing jobs, especially auto jobs, which are one-third of all Tennessee manufacturing jobs,” said Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), who said tariffs are “basically higher taxes on American consumers.”
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hey.....he can't be dictator MAGA, until he destroys america first.......errr.....PUTS america first......something......something......
 
mongooz said:
recast roseanne with Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres as her wife.
now THAT would be a hoot and a show i would watch.
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oh oh oh......and get Father Guido on there as the local priest. rotflmao

th
 
Peen Simmons said:
I think it’s a little blinkered to suggest that the Euro Americans who founded this nation were not into god and it’s only contemporary Evangelicals who have fucked it up.

Puritan ideas are the bedrock of Yankee culture. And southern elites were big time into Jesus and romantic chivalric nonsense and God as the gift white folks were bringing to slaves and savages.

TJ and Saucy Ben were freethinkers and relatively impious (for men of their day), but the average dude on the street wasn’t a Jacobin in the making. Plus anticlerical sentiment (and thus suspicion of state churches) isn’t the same as a wholesale rejection of metaphysics and the unseen world. I mean, you don’t get to be a Mason unless you can at least handle the notion of a higher power.

The powdered wig types weren’t evangelical Christians as we know them today, but they also weren’t foppish Dawkinses either. And they all likely saw the need for and appeal of having Christianity as a tool for instructing the great unwashed, slaves, the savages, etc. because America was a VERY SPECIAL PLACE THAT PROVIDENCE HAD CARVED OUT FOR THE WHITE SAVIORS.
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yes, but being religious in the 18th century is not unique to America. It was the entire western world. Our founders were more "enlightened" than their European counterparts. Who is the universal backing power of a monarchy?
 
i guess it wasn't at the top of their things to do list.

Illinois Ratifies Equal Rights Amendment 36 Years After The Congressional Deadline
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/equal-rights-amendment-illinois_us_5b0f9599e4b05ef4c22ac411

"More than 45 years after it was approved by Congress, Illinois has become the 37th state to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment. "

"The Illinois House passed the measure 72-45 on Wednesday ― more than three decades after the expiration of the ratification deadline. The state Senate voted in favor of the resolution, 43-12, last month. The measure does not require the approval of Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner."

"The constitutional amendment, which declares that equality of rights “shall not be denied by the U.S. or any state on account of sex,” was first introduced in Congress in the 1920s. It was sent to the states for ratification in 1972, but only 35 states ratified the amendment by the congressionally set 1982 deadline — three states short of the 38 required to append it to the Constitution."

"The other states that have yet to ratify the amendment are: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Virginia and Utah." [now, those are no surprise]
 
rickenvox said:
yes, but being religious in the 18th century is not unique to America. It was the entire western world. Our founders were more "enlightened" than their European counterparts. Who is the universal backing power of a monarchy?
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Are you attempting to refute my point? Because you don’t seem to be doing it.

The average American and even a good number of the founders were Christian to some degree, or at least sympathetic to a Christian worldview more or less in line with mainstream Protestantism.

Moreover, many of the early Euro American settlers as well as citizens after the revolution viewed America as a special place with a special destiny. America was a nation apart...either because of the founding principles, divine providence, or some combo or other factor.

As such, it is fair to say that American exceptionalism (even American traditions of Christian exceptionalism) can be traced all the way back to some of the first English settlements.

Which was the initial point I made re: someone suggesting that this was a primarily Evangelical invention.

As for the monarchy...England (with Magna Carta and other instances) clipped the wings of the divine right pretty clearly...versus, say, France or the (neither/nor/nor) Holy Roman Empire. The consent of the governed and something that smells a little bit like a social contract creeps into the English tradition relatively early in the game and therefore informs the colonial shitfit of the late 18th century. The Parliamentary tradition provides a check against absolute monarchy...plus the legacy of the civil war...which puts the English monarch in a less “off with his head” situation when Enlightenment radicals decide that they want to call the shots vs. what happened to poor Louis a few years later.

Plus George III was much further away and thus harder to kill. And popular support for the American Revolution was marginal at best at the beginning, at least as far as the rabble were concerned. A bunch of hotheaded Bostonians (with their Puritan roots) got all riled up and teamed up with rich planters to get themselves a bigger piece of the pie.
 
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Peen Simmons said:
I think it’s a little blinkered to suggest that the Euro Americans who founded this nation were not into god and it’s only contemporary Evangelicals who have fucked it up.

Puritan ideas are the bedrock of Yankee culture. And southern elites were big time into Jesus and romantic chivalric nonsense and God as the gift white folks were bringing to slaves and savages.

TJ and Saucy Ben were freethinkers and relatively impious (for men of their day), but the average dude on the street wasn’t a Jacobin in the making. Plus anticlerical sentiment (and thus suspicion of state churches) isn’t the same as a wholesale rejection of metaphysics and the unseen world. I mean, you don’t get to be a Mason unless you can at least handle the notion of a higher power.

The powdered wig types weren’t evangelical Christians as we know them today, but they also weren’t foppish Dawkinses either. And they all likely saw the need for and appeal of having Christianity as a tool for instructing the great unwashed, slaves, the savages, etc. because America was a VERY SPECIAL PLACE THAT PROVIDENCE HAD CARVED OUT FOR THE WHITE SAVIORS.
Click to expand...

Yeah. There’s a reason why Tom Paine isn’t deified.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Are you attempting to refute my point? Because you don’t seem to be doing it.

The average American and even a good number of the founders were Christian to some degree, or at least sympathetic to a Christian worldview more or less in line with mainstream Protestantism.

Moreover, many of the early Euro American settlers as well as citizens after the revolution viewed America as a special place with a special destiny. America was a nation apart...either because of the founding principles, divine providence, or some combo or other factor.

As such, it is fair to say that American exceptionalism (even American traditions of Christian exceptionalism) can be traced all the way back to some of the first English settlements.

Which was the initial point I made re: someone suggesting that this was a primarily Evangelical invention.

As for the monarchy...England (with Magna Carta and other instances) clipped the wings of the divine right pretty clearly...versus, say, France or the (neither/nor/nor) Holy Roman Empire. The consent of the governed and something that smells a little bit like a social contract creeps into the English tradition relatively early in the game and therefore informs the colonial shitfit of the late 18th century. The Parliamentary tradition provides a check against absolute monarchy...plus the legacy of the civil war...which puts the English monarch in a less “off with his head” situation when Enlightenment radicals decide that they want to call the shots vs. what happened to poor Louis a few years later.

Plus George III was much further away and thus harder to kill. And popular support for the American Revolution was marginal at best at the beginning, at least as far as the rabble were concerned. A bunch of hotheaded Bostonians (with their Puritan roots) got all riled up and teamed up with rich planters to get themselves a bigger piece of the pie.
Click to expand...

Well, the English had already had their turn with beheading the King a century earlier. And they soon realized that it’s better to be taxed than it is to be led by a bunch of killjoys.
 
Flamencology said:
Well, the English had already had their turn with beheading the King a century earlier. And they soon realized that it’s better to be taxed than it is to be led by a bunch of killjoys.
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Indeed. No one cool ever winds up leading the revolution. Always a bunch of jerks who wanna boss people around.
 
The news is crazy pants today. Trade wars, stupid pardons for Martha Stuart and The guy who tried to sell Obama’s senate seat(Both contestants on the Apprentice, btw). Something about cohens shredded documents not actually being shredded.

:ewh:
 
mongooz said:
exactly. neither the constitution nor the declaration say anything about 'god'. 'creator' is mentioned, but not 'god'. and nowhere does it say anything about christianity at all.
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Well, since everyone in America was a Christian at the time the Constitution was written, and the Christian creator is the "Father, Son (the White Republican one, not the Jewish hippy socialist one), and Holy Ghost" the religion mentioned in the first amendment is, in fact, Christianity. Thus, Christianity is the official religion of the United States.

I've had this argument presented to me a depressing number of times. This is the argument that is taught to evangelical Christians by their religious leaders.
 
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