Achtung! Garbage is the best female fronted rock band ever.

Garbage (the band) ranks pretty damned high on the list, but no way they reign supreme. Especially after Shirley Manson totally screwed over their photographer and then bashed her own fans that disapproved.

The Sunday's were much better.

So too were The Go Go's and The Bangles.

Heart would slay them all with one of Nancy Wilson's hands tied behind her back.

But we all know that Guns 'n' Roses is the clear winner of "best female fronted rock band"... Hard to be more of a little girl than Axel Rose unless you just happen to actually be Pippy Longstocking.
 
OGG said:
Garbage (the band) ranks pretty damned high on the list, but no way they reign supreme. Especially after Shirley Manson totally screwed over their photographer and then bashed her own fans that disapproved.
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Seems to be a continuing theme amongst music fans, looking at sensational news or certain artists personal lives as some determining factor of the value of their art. What would Manson's screwing over a photographer and bashing fans have to do with whether Garbage is one of the best female fronted bands or not? Esp. on a musicians forum. We judge by the music, no?
 
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rickenvox said:
Seems to be a continuing theme amongst music fans, looking at sensational news or certain artists personal lives as some determining factor of the value of their art. What would Manson's screwing over a photographer and bashing fans have to do with whether Garbage is one of the best female fronted bands or not? Esp. on a musicians forum. We judge by the music, no?
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Simple:

Turning on your own fans tarnishes your work. Does it make the work "lesser"? No, but it's like putting a black light over the Mona Lisa. Sure, it's still the Mona Lisa, but now it looks like shit.

And, had you read my response, you'll see quite clearly that I didn't disqualify or diminish the band's output because Shirley is a douche, that fact was an "aside". I actually praised their work quite highly while noting the superior work of others... even ending with a joke that makes your entire response completely asinine if I'm honest. You did actually "read" it right?

Please tell me you weren't just looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

Sorry, not trying to be a dick, but that was a pretty smug and inflammatory response considering that it appears on every level to overlook the entirety of my earlier post except for one line, which had it's context twisted completely beyond reason. I fail to see the point here.

Have I NOT been the one who is constantly asking why so many around here bash the shit out of U2 because they don't like Bono?

Should we talk about all the hate for The Eagles? That always ends well.

Fuck's sake man, reallly?

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OGG said:
Simple:

Turning on your own fans tarnishes your work. Does it make the work "lesser"? No, but it's like putting a black light over the Mona Lisa. Sure, it's still the Mona Lisa, but now it looks like shit.

And, had you read my response, you'll see quite clearly that I didn't disqualify or diminish the band's output because Shirley is a douche, that fact was an "aside". I actually praised their work quite highly while noting the superior work of others... even ending with a joke that makes your entire response completely asinine if I'm honest. You did actually "read" it right?

Please tell me you weren't just looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

Sorry, not trying to be a dick, but that was a pretty smug and inflammatory response considering that it appears on every level to overlook the entirety of my earlier post except for one line, which had it's context twisted completely beyond reason. I fail to see the point here.

Have I NOT been the one who is constantly asking why so many around here bash the shit out of U2 because they don't like Bono?

Should we talk about all the hate for The Eagles? That always ends well.

Fuck's sake man, reallly?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It was a simple response really, didn't expect that big of a reaction. Regardless of what you said after you listed those couple of reasons why Garbage might not rank as highly in your mind. I'm just asking what that has to do with the music and how it ranks. Picasso was an asshole, but he's still Picasso. And who knows if Leonardo was a complete asshole, not many gossip magazines back then.

BTW - I never argue for the sake of arguing. But I do post just to post at times, and sometimes it's stream of conscious or a gut reaction. But it's always honest, unless I'm obviously being ironic. This is a forum, not a rocket science journal with empirical facts or school of etiquette with absolute rules of politeness. It's informal, opinionated, and occasionally funny. Disagreeing can either be the start of an interesting conversation, or a reason to be offended at being slighted in some way. It's all how you approach it.
 
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OGG said:
Garbage (the band) ranks pretty damned high on the list, but no way they reign supreme. Especially after Shirley Manson totally screwed over their photographer and then bashed her own fans that disapproved.

The Sunday's were much better.

So too were The Go Go's and The Bangles.

Heart would slay them all with one of Nancy Wilson's hands tied behind her back.

But we all know that Guns 'n' Roses is the clear winner of "best female fronted rock band"... Hard to be more of a little girl than Axel Rose unless you just happen to actually be Pippy Longstocking.
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I love GnR but I guess I'd have to agree...Axl is quite the bitch( or at least was...he seems to have gotten his ego in check lately)
 
gtrjunior said:
I love GnR but I guess I'd have to agree...Axl is quite the bitch( or at least was...he seems to have gotten his ego in check lately)
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Taking 10+ years to put out a highly anticipated album (by hardcore fans anyway), only to have end up in the bargain bin a few months later will do that do you. :shrug:
 
rickenvox said:
It was a simple response really, didn't expect that big of a reaction. Regardless of what you said after you listed those couple of reasons why Garbage might not rank as highly in your mind. I'm just asking what that has to do with the music and how it ranks. Picasso was an asshole, but he's still Picasso. And who knows if Leonardo was a complete asshole, not many gossip magazines back then.

BTW - I never argue for the sake of arguing. But I do post just to post at times, and sometimes it's stream of conscious or a gut reaction. But it's always honest, unless I'm obviously being ironic. This is a forum, not a rocket science journal with empirical facts or school of etiquette with absolute rules of politeness. It's informal, opinionated, and occasionally funny. Disagreeing can either be the start of an interesting conversation, or a reason to be offended at being slighted in some way. It's all how you approach it.
Click to expand...
Ok.

Again, not trying to be a dick. Just found it odd that my post got a reply that uses a single side note to make a point already made by the rest of my post and in a somewhat elitist fashion. Had I omitted the Shirley being a douche part, my post would be in lock step to the very point you made in response.

I get it, we're all opinionated. I was an habitual offender in my youth in terms of quickly dismissing any music, band or artist that either didn't appeal to my tastes, or who otherwise vexed me by being insufferable. I was very quick to pull the "they suck" trigger based entirely on everything BUT the actual quality of their work.

With some maturity, and the humility that comes from working in a business where your hard work and passion is so easily dismissed, and as you learn to appreciate things like songcraft etc... you tend to drop all of those pretenses and learn to appreciate things even when they don't appeal to you.

I could sit and watch an hour of Yngwie at his very best, I'm sure (as I have with so many), that I could spend that entire hour marvelling over the level of skill, and thinking about the monstrous effort and investment of time spent honing the craft, but I still wouldn't "like it". The prevailing opinion that he's a Twinkie shoveling Diva wouldn't affect that either way.

Most of my favorite music "sucks" for a variety of reasons, the biggest being that things like Theory, Technique and basic Music School 101 "knowledge" are totally lost on the guys making that music. Add in a rather esoteric sonic palette and a total disregard for "The Rules" governing what is and is not considered "cool", and my favorite bands are easy targets for the type of baseless or irrelevant criticism of which you refer.

By that same token, many of the most celebrated bands and artists talked about here at MWGL don't appeal to me in the least. I don't say they "suck", I just don't enjoy hearing them. Take your pick... I've given several hours to bands like The Foo Fighters, DBT/Jason Isbell, SilverSun Pickups, Govt. Mule, etc adfinitum, and nothin'... a whole bunch of really talented folks making music for people other than myself.

Dave Matthews is as supremely talented as he is a colossal douche canoe. Neither of those facts has any bearing on why I'd rather hear an endless parade of cats sliding down a chalkboard. Clearly, his fans either don't see him as an egregious twatwaffle, or they just overlook him being one because his music appeals to them on some level or combination thereof.

I could delve into the always fun and exciting conversation about why Bob Dylan's entire career is a sham, and how aside from being quite possibly the worst singer, with the worst voice in the history of popular music... he wouldn't know an original thought if he actually were to suddenly have one, that his career has been propped up and propagated by a cultural movement and mob mentality of same along with some of his best works of plagiarism being covered in a much more flattering and sonically pleasing way than he could ever deliver them himself, by other A-List artists... but that's a whole other discussion and giant can of worms. Instead, I'd rather just congratulate him on sustaining a career in a brutal business through six decades. Good on you Bob, good on you.

So, in summation: Shirley Manson (a long time personal friend) pulled a total dick move, and then doubled down on the dickishness by attacking her own fans. That happened, but it has no bearing on why I personally don't consider the assertion of the OP to be accurate. It's simply an unfortunate footnote worth mentioning while still holding the material in high regard and offering opinions on why others are better candidates for the accolades.

Cool?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
OGG said:
Ok.

Again, not trying to be a dick. Just found it odd that my post got a reply that uses a single side note to make a point already made by the rest of my post and in a somewhat elitist fashion. Had I omitted the Shirley being a douche part, my post would be in lock step to the very point you made in response.

I get it, we're all opinionated. I was an habitual offender in my youth in terms of quickly dismissing any music, band or artist that either didn't appeal to my tastes, or who otherwise vexed me by being insufferable. I was very quick to pull the "they suck" trigger based entirely on everything BUT the actual quality of their work.

With some maturity, and the humility that comes from working in a business where your hard work and passion is so easily dismissed, and as you learn to appreciate things like songcraft etc... you tend to drop all of those pretenses and learn to appreciate things even when they don't appeal to you.

I could sit and watch an hour of Yngwie at his very best, I'm sure (as I have with so many), that I could spend that entire hour marvelling over the level of skill, and thinking about the monstrous effort and investment of time spent honing the craft, but I still wouldn't "like it". The prevailing opinion that he's a Twinkie shoveling Diva wouldn't affect that either way.

Most of my favorite music "sucks" for a variety of reasons, the biggest being that things like Theory, Technique and basic Music School 101 "knowledge" are totally lost on the guys making that music. Add in a rather esoteric sonic palette and a total disregard for "The Rules" governing what is and is not considered "cool", and my favorite bands are easy targets for the type of baseless or irrelevant criticism of which you refer.

By that same token, many of the most celebrated bands and artists talked about here at MWGL don't appeal to me in the least. I don't say they "suck", I just don't enjoy hearing them. Take your pick... I've given several hours to bands like The Foo Fighters, DBT/Jason Isbell, SilverSun Pickups, Govt. Mule, etc adfinitum, and nothin'... a whole bunch of really talented folks making music for people other than myself.

Dave Matthews is as supremely talented as he is a colossal douche canoe. Neither of those facts has any bearing on why I'd rather hear an endless parade of cats sliding down a chalkboard. Clearly, his fans either don't see him as an egregious twatwaffle, or they just overlook him being one because his music appeals to them on some level or combination thereof.

I could delve into the always fun and exciting conversation about why Bob Dylan's entire career is a sham, and how aside from being quite possibly the worst singer, with the worst voice in the history of popular music... he wouldn't know an original thought if he actually were to suddenly have one, that his career has been propped up and propagated by a cultural movement and mob mentality of same along with some of his best works of plagiarism being covered in a much more flattering and sonically pleasing way than he could ever deliver them himself, by other A-List artists... but that's a whole other discussion and giant can of worms. Instead, I'd rather just congratulate him on sustaining a career in a brutal business through six decades. Good on you Bob, good on you.

So, in summation: Shirley Manson (a long time personal friend) pulled a total dick move, and then doubled down on the dickishness by attacking her own fans. That happened, but it has no bearing on why I personally don't consider the assertion of the OP to be accurate. It's simply an unfortunate footnote worth mentioning while still holding the material in high regard and offering opinions on why others are better candidates for the accolades.

Cool?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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(Applause)

Dude, we could sit down around some beers and just have a trash party.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am a guy who plays at playing guitar so I do not value my opinion on music too much but what you said is shit I have wanted to say for years but have feared the: "You are not a musician, you don't know!"

Well said!
 
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OGG said:
Cool?
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Click to expand...

We were always cool. And if you write a post that long again you will definitely make me give up and concede earlier. :wink:

Funny thing is I really think that music is not sport and no one can really be ranked in all seriousness. It hits people on a subjective level and you can't discount millions of people that like Lady Gaga for example. If that combination of beats, notes, sounds, and words affected people on a visceral level, who's to question that? And sometimes that impact on people is the most relevant in a specific time period. Much of Garbage's music sounds like the 90s to me. I'm only happy when it rains really sums up a 90s aesthetic of preferring gloom to a bright sunny day. Doesn't really work for me now, and when I hear it today the appeal is mostly nostalgic. But they put out good solid music. There is no best. And if there is it's St Vincent. That's an empirical fact. Don't argue please.
 
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