OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

[Chad]

That's a complex question with a lot of facets, but the biggest one is this: thirty-plus years of unchecked and increasingly unbalanced conservative propaganda. A whole stratum of "information sources" that routinely promote falsehoods as facts in service of a rightwing ideological agenda, and by constant repetition reinforce each other's lies, lending the illusion of truth to the provably untrue.

http://www.businessinsider.com/stud...-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5

http://www.alternet.org/media/why-conservatives-opt-propaganda-over-reality

http://www.nationinstitute.org/featuredwork/books/1665/big_lies:_the_right-wing_propaganda_machine_and_how_it_distorts_the_truth/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...f-rightwing-media_us_57b65402e4b029a9a4652ab1

I know this, I was just wondering if there was a legitimate reason other than Benghazi, emails and whatever other bullshit Fox News trumps up.

 

[wagdog]

Yeah, that is unfortunate, and I certainly don't condone or support it in any way...I don't deny that Trump has done much to empower the racist/xenophobic/misogynist groups, and I'm hoping against hope that he comes out and condemns it at some time...his inaugural would be a good place to start...

+1

I've read through the "Trump won't denounce the KKK" stories, and I can see where people think that's the case. It isn't - he just didn't state it soon enough or clearly enough, and that's his fault. The media however wanted that to be the story line and if you say something enough, it becomes reality. They tried that with the election too... but it didn't work.

Trump isn't a Nazi or a White Supremacist. He isn't going to round up brown people, Muslims or LBGQT people for deportation or re-education camps. It's not going to happen, and the sooner the media and the mouthpieces online stop parroting that, the sooner things will calm down. There are always going to be morons who feel they can tell people who don't look like them to "go home". It's sad, but fixing that is (still) going to take decades. We'll get there, we will.

This country has come a long way in my lifetime towards acceptance of different cultures and lifestyles. I'm proud of the progress we've made. We've still got a long way to go and there is no reason for it to stop now. We also need to balance that progress with the realization that no matter what we do, there are going to be people who want to kill us. It's quite a balancing act we're engaged in.

 

[Chad]

So yes, I did miss it but i just went back and read it.
Honestly, I don't see what the fuss is. The fact that he is willing to entertain "alternative" ideas shows that he isn't the "dictator" people seem to be making him out to be.
As far as the Mexican wall thing...anybody with half a brain Knew that was never gonna happen.
I really feel like everybody is completely over-reacting here.
We have a government that operates on a system of checks and balances. No one person is going to singlehandedly ruin the country. Every president In history has had some great policies and some terrible ones. Trump will be no different.
Life will go on as it always has.

If memory serves when Obama came out with his Obamacare package people were pretty pissed off about that. Now all of the sudden Trump says he wants to repeal it and it the best thing since sliced bread?!?!

The problem is is that the GOP now holds congress, the presidency and soon the Supreme Court. They have shown over and over that they will vote along party lines 100% of the time so there are no checks and balances anymore. Whatever the party decides is what happens. Honestly, I prefer when congress and the president are opposite parties. Then if something gets passed, you know there were concessions made.

As for Obamacare,while it is far from perfect, it is light years better than before it was enacted. The major issue with it is it isn't a single payer system like the rest of the world is.

 

[gtrjunior]

The problem is is that the GOP now holds congress, the presidency and soon the Supreme Court. They have shown over and over that they will vote along party lines 100% of the time so there are no checks and balances anymore. Whatever the party decides is what happens. Honestly, I prefer when congress and the president are opposite parties. Then if something gets passed, you know there were concessions made.

As for Obamacare,while it is far from perfect, it is light years better than before it was enacted. The major issue with it is it isn't a single payer system like the rest of the world is.

Nothing is 100%...ever. Toward the end of the campaign a lot of republicans revoked their support of trump.
All due respect to everyone that feels as you do, but you're WAY over-reacting.
Don't get me wrong, I think we as voters had 2 shitty choices in candidates so I'm not trying to praise trump but I really believe life will go on as it always has and people are making all of this out to be some tragic election that will spell the end of America....that's NOT going to happen.

 

[jelloman]

There is a huge difference in my mind. Did you have any reasonable believe that Al Gore, Barrack Obama or Hillary Clinton would launch nuclear missiles? I never once thought Bush, McCain or Romney would. I'm not so sure about Trump. If he does, we all will wish we were right wing nut job preppers.

I'm also not sure why the right hates the left? Are they mad at the left for giving them healthcare? Or lowering unemployment? Making the stock market rise? Is it really as simple as the left is ok with gays and Muslims? And the left is OK with a 43 year old supreme court decision? I'm seriously asking.

I'm not going to pretend I possess any special insight into it, but I think it has mostly to do with different values and lifestyles...

As the county by county map shows, the left lives primarily in urban areas, the right in rural areas....Phil linked to an excellent article that did a great job describing the differences in lifestyles and how they affected th election, but I'm going to paraphrase some of it here...

People who live in rural areas have many fewer options for most aspects of life...fewer employment options, fewer educational options, fewer cultural options...most of their social interaction happens in the church, very little anywher else...their schools are much smaller nd thus much more poorly funded, since federal funds are based on number of students...less dense population requires fewer service jobs, and the factories and manufcturing jobs leaving lessens opportunity even more...

These are people who value old fashioned things like families, religion, and individual rights...

Then along comes someone lie Obama who utters staements like "they cling to their god and their guns"...they see the left selling out their way of life in favor of globalisation, and letting the UN (them outsiders) dictate policies like disarmament...they see their taxes going to people who don't work, snuck into the country illegally, and so forth...

They have no way out...they're trapped in their dying towns...and the left tells them there's nothing to be done, they have to change with the times...

I have farmers in m family...I live on my sister's dairy fam now...as hard as one thinks he works to make a living for his family, you cannot conceive of what hard work really is until you see these guys leaving for the barn to milk the cows at 4am, coming in for breakfast at 8, going back out to work the fields until lunch, back after lunch, back to the barn at 4pm to milk the cows, in for supper at 7...and do it every day 7 days a week...

That is why the left and right have such a hard time understanding each other...

And then along comes a Donald Trump, who tells them that they matter more,that he understands why they matter, and that he will make it right for them...and they hope he does...

Racism, homophobia, xenophobia, misogyny...yes they exist on the right...but it wasn't racism, sexism, etc that won Trump the presidency...it was fear and desperation to survive that did...

 

[Chad]

Nothing is 100%...ever. Toward the end of the campaign a lot of republicans revoked their support of trump.
All due respect to everyone that feels as you do, but you're WAY over-reacting.
Don't get me wrong, I think we as voters had 2 shitty choices in candidates so I'm not trying to praise trump but I really believe life will go on as it always has and people are making all of this out to be some tragic election that will spell the end of America....that's NOT going to happen.

Find me an example of a republican congressman voting against the party line during Obama's presidency. Really the only chance that doesn't happen is they don't have a fillabuster proof majority in the senate, so the dems can stoop to the level the republicans did for the last 8 years and just shit the government when they don't get their way.

If Trump goes through with his environmental promises, it won't just be the end of America, it will be the end of the world.

 

[jelloman]

I do have to say that I am speaking in the sweeping generalities I despise, but there is no way to avoid it when addressing things like this...

 

[gtrjunior]

Do you really believe that just because a congressman is the same party as the president they will vote in favor of every policy that comes across their desk? I know that morality is a lost art in out govt. but even a republican won't let a fellow republican "end the world"
Seriously man....
over-reacting.
As far as an example of crossing party lines during Obamas term, that's a completely different scenario. You're asking me to compare a republican voting against the party during a democratic presidency so sure, you're probably correct that, that wouldn't happen.
The current scenario is different especially since many republicans have already withdrawn their trump support. So, it stands to reason that many MAY cross party lines. Only time will tell. Right now all we can do is speculate. And speculation without substance is a dangerous, dangerous thing.

 

[Chad]

Do you really believe that just because a congressman is the same party as the president they will vote in favor of every policy that comes across their desk? I know that morality is a lost art in out govt. but even a republican won't let a fellow republican "end the world"
Seriously man....
over-reacting.
As far as an example of crossing party lines during Obamas term, that's a completely different scenario. You're asking me to compare a republican voting against the party during a democratic presidency so sure, you're probably correct that, that wouldn't happen.
The current scenario is different especially since many republicans have already withdrawn their trump support. So, it stands to reason that many MAY cross party lines. Only time will tell. Right now all we can do is speculate. And speculation without substance is a dangerous, dangerous thing.

Again, find me a time when a republican voted against the party line in the last 8 years. During Bush's term, Democrats voted for republican bills all the time, they didn't shut down the government having temper tantrums like the republicans did during Obama. During the election a bunch of republicans drew their support. You are correct, but I believe, they thought he was going to lose big time and they didn't want to be associated with it. Now that he won, they will get in line with the party for fear of losing their seat. Because, lets face it, the thing anyone fears in congress the most is losing their seat, and that is both sides of the isle not just the GOP.

 

[Chad]

I do have to say that I am speaking in the sweeping generalities I despise, but there is no way to avoid it when addressing things like this...

Thanks Jello. I know you are sincerely trying to answer the question and you really can't speak for everyone. But you sort of confirmed what i thought. They take a single quote that gets blown up by Fox and make it a rallying cry without actually looking at what is being done. Guns and God, Deplorables, it is quick sounds bites played over and over and I can see how that would piss folks off, especially ones who don't full pay attention to what is going on. I mean look how many people throw out Benghazi even after the 34 million investigations all say nothing could have been done and that Clinton was not to blame for anything, it doesn't matter. Private email server, she should be in jail, wait, Bush had 3 private email servers (which is illegal under the Presidential Records Act) and Colin Powell had a private server.

I think it really comes down to abortion and guns because the right certainly does nothing to support the small towns and rural areas. I really hand it to the GOP and Fox news, they really know how to spin it. The funniest thing to me, is I bet that nobody in the GOP really wants to overturn Roe v Wade. If it were overturned, I don't think the religious folks would have any reason to vote for them anymore.

The funniest part is Trump is the freakin definition of city slicker. I can't believe he was able to win the rural vote. He is the poster child of everything wrong with high class city folks.

 

[Chad]

Do you really believe that just because a congressman is the same party as the president they will vote in favor of every policy that comes across their desk? I know that morality is a lost art in out govt. but even a republican won't let a fellow republican "end the world"
Seriously man....
over-reacting.
As far as an example of crossing party lines during Obamas term, that's a completely different scenario. You're asking me to compare a republican voting against the party during a democratic presidency so sure, you're probably correct that, that wouldn't happen.
The current scenario is different especially since many republicans have already withdrawn their trump support. So, it stands to reason that many MAY cross party lines. Only time will tell. Right now all we can do is speculate. And speculation without substance is a dangerous, dangerous thing.

Dude, I hope you are right. With all of Trump's backpedaling, he may not try to follow through on anything, but nothing the GOP has done over the last 8 years gives my any hope that they will step up and do the right thing. Hell, how many of them stood up when he said Mexicans are rapists and criminals? How many stood up when he bragged about sexually assaulting women? A few did, but even Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz backed him. Trump was completely out of line in his treatment of them during the primaries and they still fell in line with the party. You can tell Paul Ryan was disgusted with Trump, but he still got in line.

 

[GilmourD]

At this point with all the deaths (celebrity and other), Dump winning the presidency, and all the other bullshit the only fitting way for 2016 would be for somebody to set off a nuke. I mean... Really, it's the only way this year could get worse/better.

 

[gtrjunior]

Again, find me a time when a republican voted against the party line in the last 8 years. During Bush's term, Democrats voted for republican bills all the time, they didn't shut down the government having temper tantrums like the republicans did during Obama. During the election a bunch of republicans drew their support. You are correct, but I believe, they thought he was going to lose big time and they didn't want to be associated with it. Now that he won, they will get in line with the party for fear of losing their seat. Because, lets face it, the thing anyone fears in congress the most is losing their seat, and that is both sides of the isle not just the GOP.

I can't find you an example, chad...if that makes you feel better then by all means I'll give that one to you. But the rest of your post is still speculation! Except the part about congressmen losing their seat, you're probably right there also but as far as the republicans that withdrew support, again time will tell.
Trump hasn't even taken office yet and everybody is all over him....let the guy have a chance!!
I get that you don't like him, but like it or not he's our president for the next 4 years so we all have to find a way to deal, accept and move on. At the very least he deserves a chance. If he shows that he's a complete fuck up, I'll be the first one on your side of this!!

 

[gtrjunior]

Dude, I hope you are right. With all of Trump's backpedaling, he may not try to follow through on anything, but nothing the GOP has done over the last 8 years gives my any hope that they will step up and do the right thing. Hell, how many of them stood up when he said Mexicans are rapists and criminals? How many stood up when he bragged about sexually assaulting women? A few did, but even Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz backed him. Trump was completely out of line in his treatment of them during the primaries and they still fell in line with the party. You can tell Paul Ryan was disgusted with Trump, but he still got in line.

No doubt, it's far from an ideal situation.

 

[jelloman]

Thanks Jello. I know you are sincerely trying to answer the question and you really can't speak for everyone. But you sort of confirmed what i thought. They take a single quote that gets blown up by Fox and make it a rallying cry without actually looking at what is being done. Guns and God, Deplorables, it is quick sounds bites played over and over and I can see how that would piss folks off, especially ones who don't full pay attention to what is going on. I mean look how many people throw out Benghazi even after the 34 million investigations all say nothing could have been done and that Clinton was not to blame for anything, it doesn't matter. Private email server, she should be in jail, wait, Bush had 3 private email servers (which is illegal under the Presidential Records Act) and Colin Powell had a private server.

I think it really comes down to abortion and guns because the right certainly does nothing to support the small towns and rural areas. I really hand it to the GOP and Fox news, they really know how to spin it. The funniest thing to me, is I bet that nobody in the GOP really wants to overturn Roe v Wade. If it were overturned, I don't think the religious folks would have any reason to vote for them anymore.

The funniest part is Trump is the freakin definition of city slicker. I can't believe he was able to win the rural vote. He is the poster child of everything wrong with high class city folks.

I personally believe there is a lot more to it than just guns and abortion, and the blown up quotes are more indicative of the issue than the issue itself, but without writing a novella it's just impossible for us to lay it all out here...

There is such a distressing disconnect between the 2 sides...it's no longer enough to just say "hey, but we're all Americans, we're all on the same team"...and it's easy to blame media bias for it, but both sides have their outlets, and all they are really doing is telling people what they want to hear...people don't want to be challenged, they want to be right...and they are going to respond to the ones telling them what they want to hear, to the point where they disregard the underlying reality...

Chad, I am really tired...the whole thought process is exhausting, and I think I need to take a break from it and just shut the whole world off...I can't remember when I just sat down and listened to some music or read a book...I love you guys, I really do, and to be honest, your politics matter very little to my feelings...and I don't want the fundamental differences to be our undoing...lord knows this group of miscreants isn't going to solve anything...in the end it's just really depressing...

 

[wok]

Am I the only who at all those Trump voters who voted out of protest against the establishment, the elite and big money while at the same time saying 'we need a businessman to save our country' ?

On a slighly different note, could you guys make sure that odious Nigel Farage stays over there? Britain thanks you

 

[Chad]

I can't find you an example, chad...if that makes you feel better then by all means I'll give that one to you. But the rest of your post is still speculation! Except the part about congressmen losing their seat, you're probably right there also but as far as the republicans that withdrew support, again time will tell.
Trump hasn't even taken office yet and everybody is all over him....let the guy have a chance!!
I get that you don't like him, but like it or not he's our president for the next 4 years so we all have to find a way to deal, accept and move on. At the very least he deserves a chance. If he shows that he's a complete fuck up, I'll be the first one on your side of this!!

I get the give him a chance. Like I have said in other posts, my feelings are limited to Trump. I am a freaking socialist, I don't hide that fact. If Romney had beaten Obama, I would have been fine and let him have a go, had McCain beaten Obama, I would have given him a chance. Hell, I gave W a huge rope and generally defend him, he was given a freaking bad hand, probably the worst dealt to a president. I think he was a misguided by people he trusted and was in over his head, but I do believe his heart was in the right place.

When a guy brags about sexually assaulting women, calls an entire country rapists and criminals, wants to ban an entire religion in a country founded on religious freedom, I draw a line. He is a first class asshole and shouldn't be managing a McDonalds let alone be the most powerful person on the planet. He has to earn my trust and respect and he has the biggest hole in the world to climb out of to that. I don't think 4 or 8 years will be enough time for him to win me over. After the hate and vitriol he has spewed in this election cycle, to members of both parties, I'm not sure how anyone can give the guy a chance. For god sakes, he said McCain was not a hero because he was captured. How the fuck does anyone defend that? How do you move past that? You are a bigger man than I if you can.

 

[Knox in Box]

They'll stop protesting when Soros gets thrown in prison and is prevented funding these people.

Run through the logistics of funding, organizing and maintaining these things and tell me straight faced that Soros could do that under the radar. 100,000 people alone in NYC. I think you're giving him way too much credit instead of just accepting that there in one hell of a lot of people that feel very strongly.

 

[Chad]

I personally believe there is a lot more to it than just guns and abortion, and the blown up quotes are more indicative of the issue than the issue itself, but without writing a novella it's just impossible for us to lay it all out here...

There is such a distressing disconnect between the 2 sides...it's no longer enough to just say "hey, but we're all Americans, we're all on the same team"...and it's easy to blame media bias for it, but both sides have their outlets, and all they are really doing is telling people what they want to hear...people don't want to be challenged, they want to be right...and they are going to respond to the ones telling them what they want to hear, to the point where they disregard the underlying reality...

Chad, I am really tired...the whole thought process is exhausting, and I think I need to take a break from it and just shut the whole world off...I can't remember when I just sat down and listened to some music or read a book...I love you guys, I really do, and to be honest, your politics matter very little to my feelings...and I don't want the fundamental differences to be our undoing...lord knows this group of miscreants isn't going to solve anything...in the end it's just really depressing...

I agree 100% with these last 2 paragraphs and I'm sure there is more. I wish I still drank, because I could really use a jug of vodka right about now. I really am at the point where I want the country to split into at least 2 countries. I'm not sure I can ever get past people voting for a guy who brags about sexual assault and says a POW is not a hero because he prefers heroes to not be captured.

So I raise my glass of water to you Jello. Have a good one brother.

 

[jelloman]

I agree 100% with these last 2 paragraphs and I'm sure there is more. I wish I still drank, because I could really use a jug of vodka right about now. I really am at the point where I want the country to split into at least 2 countries. I'm not sure I can ever get past people voting for a guy who brags about sexual assault and says a POW is not a hero because he prefers heroes to not be captured.

So I raise my glass of water to you Jello. Have a good one brother.

chears (protein shake for me)