OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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sunvalleylaw said:
I would like to see some numbers on this. I still have my doubts, given the electoral situation in the rust belt states, that this tipped the election. Numbers, if verifiable, could prove me wrong.
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I don’t think that Russia’s goal was to tip the election. IMHO the goal was to undermine people’s faith in America’s election system when news leaked that a presidential campaign conspired with Russia to win the presidency. And because Trump won Russia also undermined the legitimacy of the president, who’s party controls both houses of Congress and a majority of state legislatures.
 
jp_nyc said:
I don’t think that Russia’s goal was to tip the election. IMHO the goal was to undermine people’s faith in America’s election system when news leaked that a presidential campaign conspired with Russia to win the presidency. And because Trump won Russia also undermined the legitimacy of the president, who’s party controls both houses of Congress and a majority of state legislatures.
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yeah, screw them. You make an interesting point but I refuse to let them get away with it. and I think others will think that way too. Systems can be improved and confidence restored. And I don't think Trump's problems with the very fractured GOP result primarily from the efforts of Russia. The wingnuts on the far right don't want any govt. related health care at all, and the moderates are scared about how pissed their constituents will be when they can't get insurance. But then again, a lot of doofus's believed the russian fake new crap too, so maybe it will work with a number of them.

Now that I think about it, maybe, just maybe, the Russians attacking our election system could be a unifying force for those that would like to try to salvage the country from the idiots. But perhaps I am just being an idiot. We shall see I suppose.
 
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Saw this at the student center of Westminster College in Salt Lake City, which we toured, along with the UofU last weekend. Didn't have a chance to check their sources for this information, but seems legit coming from a pretty well respected college.

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mongooz said:
the FBI??? do you KNOW who the director IS??
FAT FUCKING CHANCE.
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I don’t think Comey would be able to do much about it. I don’t believe that the FBI appoints prosecutors, they just provide agents to handle the investigation. Given the scope of the investigation it probably involves enough FBI and DOJ staff that attempting to hamstring it would get leaked to the press.
 
jp_nyc said:
I don’t think that Russia’s goal was to tip the election. IMHO the goal was to undermine people’s faith in America’s election system when news leaked that a presidential campaign conspired with Russia to win the presidency. And because Trump won Russia also undermined the legitimacy of the president, who’s party controls both houses of Congress and a majority of state legislatures.
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I think it was their goal. Maybe initially they only wanted to undermine the election, but once their people met with Trumps and Trumps folks told them the Obama era sanctions would be gone, they were on it. It would also explain the stories now surfacing that Rubio's servers were hacked as well.
 
sunvalleylaw said:
Saw this at the student center of Westminster College in Salt Lake City, which we toured, along with the UofU last weekend. Didn't have a chance to check their sources for this information, but seems legit coming from a pretty well respected college.

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IMO the relevance of the consolidation of those entertainment outlets is the ability for 1 company to shape views and opinions in an indirect way with the content of their entertainment products (and I'd include Fox News & CNN in that entertainment label). Newspapers and other reputable sources are notably absent from these lists.


Meanwhile, NC decides that money is more important than their 'morals'. Corporations & large organization that are the gatekeepers of large amounts of money can occasionally use that power to change policy for good.
 
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Chad said:
I think it was their goal. Maybe initially they only wanted to undermine the election, but once their people met with Trumps and Trumps folks told them the Obama era sanctions would be gone, they were on it. It would also explain the stories now surfacing that Rubio's servers were hacked as well.
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IIRC Rubio stated that his campaign was the subject of a number of hacking attempts that were conducted from Russian source IPs. He did not say he was hacked.
 
Lerxst said:
IIRC Rubio stated that his campaign was the subject of a number of hacking attempts that were conducted from Russian source IPs. He did not say he was hacked.
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When we are talking about attempting to sway the election, attempts or actual hacks are kind of the same thing. Their intent was to illegally gain information in order to influence the election.
 
Chad said:
When we are talking about attempting to sway the election, attempts or actual hacks are kind of the same thing. Their intent was to illegally gain information in order to influence the election.
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Unsuccessful attempts that may or may not have been state sponsored aren't exactly a smoking gun. A significant amount of general shenanigans comes out of Russia in the first place.
 
Lerxst said:
Unsuccessful attempts that may or may not have been state sponsored aren't exactly a smoking gun. A significant amount of general shenanigans comes out of Russia in the first place.
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Not saying it is a smoking gun. I'm saying one more piece of evidence to add to the pile. It may be circumstantial, but with everything else at play, it seems more significant.
 
Lerxst said:
IMO the relevance of the consolidation of those entertainment outlets is the ability for 1 company to shape views and opinions in an indirect way with the content of their entertainment products (and I'd include Fox News & CNN in that entertainment label). Newspapers and other reputable sources are notably absent from these lists.


Meanwhile, NC decides that money is more important than their 'morals'. Corporations & large organization that are the gatekeepers of large amounts of money can occasionally use that power to change policy for good.
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it's a repeat scenario of Indiana a year or so ago....when PENCE did the "religious freedom" law. corps and sports started walking, several other states banned travel to Ind., etc. etc. and the legislature had to cave....sort of.
 
Chad said:
Not saying it is a smoking gun. I'm saying one more piece of evidence to add to the pile. It may be circumstantial, but with everything else at play, it seems more significant.
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yep. when the pile becomes big enough....it all falls down.
 
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