OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Jack helped me vote. I was so tempted to write his name in.


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There's a been a lot of discussion and various videos you can see on YouTube about it, but I still find it shocking how many people want to put Clinton and Trump on the same level. I know I won't change the mind of any of her haters, but I'd like to think this little video might make some folks that are going the "anyone-but-Trump" route feel a bit better about voting for Hillary.

I've never bought into the idea of her as the lesser of two evils in this election. For me it's almost always been the lesser of two evils when voting, the "evils" being two politicians that work within a/our flawed version of democracy. That said, it is important to have some idea of how the system works if you actually plan on working within and/or changing said system. Causing gridlock is a useless way to try and affect change as it will only perpetuate lack of progress (even if your idea of progress is really regression). And trying to inflict your will on the people without their support is always a bad idea.

Anyway, here's a little tidbit if you've got 3:13 to spare...

 
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I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on all the Wikileaks, the DNC leaks, and the O'Keefe videos on Hillary, the DNC, and Washington in general?
 
linthat22 said:
I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on all the Wikileaks, the DNC leaks, and the O'Keefe videos on Hillary, the DNC, and Washington in general?
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I'll bite...

-- Julian Assange is a shite and I don't trust any of the "leaks" filtered through his site, let alone after being "discovered" and filter through any hackers. I don't buy their notion of truth and transparency. I agree with the philosophy to an extent, but I don't trust their motives. Also, some information is not for public consumption. Some choices are made that are difficult to understand or appreciate when you have all of the information and the wherewithal to comprehend that information. It's not about sides, it's about lack of respect for privacy, journalistic values, and safety of many people working in fields where the leaks can compromise their safety and the safety of those around them. Taking wikileaks info as gospel is like only getting your news from Fox or MSNBC...even if you only watched these two, you'd still be missing so much information. And getting information out of context just clouds things.

-- The DNC leaks are bullshit. You'd get at least as bad from the RNC if they were hacked and leaked. You don't run against and try to aspire to the highest office in the land by loving a supporting your competition. Winning in the highest levels of politics is hugely calculated. Being surprised that people had unkind things to say about their competition and trying to figure how to maximize their efforts to win is like all the twits that were surprised by the NSA wire tapping. It's the fucking NSA and we have the Patriot Act AND it's not like they weren't doing it before.
-- Conservative filmmaker James O'Keefe...HUGE, I mean HUGE fucking anti-liberal agenda and Hillary is just the latest target. Biased out the ass. Next...

--- Lastly I'll tackle a bit on D.C. Washington is a bit of a problem, but I don't care which side of the fence you're on, you can't go in like Mr. Smith and expect to change anything. You can't go in stonewalling any and every bill proposed by the other party. NOTHING gets done without bipartisan support/compromise. This used to work. The leaders in the two parties would meet and get things done. Give and take in a reasonable and rational manner. The "tea party" totally fucked that up. Going in with a blatant anti-liberal neo-Christian agenda in a country supposedly founded on freedom of religion? Total bullshit.

I hate cliches, but if you're not part of the solution, and the tea party and its politicians/candidates sure as fuck aren't, then you're part of the problem. Obstructing government processes isn't helping or changing a damned thing. The tea party has failed at doing anything effectively other than getting some "good" politicians on both side of the isle voted out of their seats and filled with know-nothing asshats that think they can wait out and overcome the left. Now the "left" includes the center and right is scarily fringe.

Other than that, I have no opinions on your proposed topics.

:thu:
 
linthat22 said:
I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on all the Wikileaks, the DNC leaks, and the O'Keefe videos on Hillary, the DNC, and Washington in general?
Click to expand...
i, personally, haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to the wiki leaks thing. my thinking is, that if wiki came up with something seriously earth shaking about Hill, it would be all over the news in ten minutes. so i'll just wait to see what the headlines are. i'm not aware of o'keefe or the dnc "leaks". (i put leaks in quotes because they aren't leaks, the info is being intentionally released, so not a "leak")

washington dc in general is a steaming pile of dog crap. it is the perfect example of what happens with a system that has only two sides and each side is SO stuck on their platform that they refuse to even talk to each other, forget working together. and BOTH parties are at fault equally.

what's the fix? well what it is NOT, is simply adding a third party. that would, in a decade, end up being a three way loggerhead. and therein lies the real problem. the notion of "we stand for this and that's all we'll talk about" mentality. there shouldn't be ANY parties. drawing lines in the sand and taking sides IS the problem.

my 3 cents.
 
mongooz said:
washington dc in general is a steaming pile of dog crap. it is the perfect example of what happens with a system that has only two sides and each side is SO stuck on their platform that they refuse to even talk to each other, forget working together. and BOTH parties are at fault equally.
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But that's the thing, even during President Obama's two terms, the dems/liberals have been trying to reach across the isle again and again only to be jerked around or flatly rebuffed. This is another false equivalency that we're dealing with two equally immovable objects. The record reflects that the lack of compromise during the better part of the last decade has been coming from the rep/conservative side. Even when the liberals make what I view as WAY TOO MANY concessions, they get shot down by the conservatives. Again, the most blatant example being the Affordable Care Act. Obama talks to the HoR and asks how can I change this to get you to vote for it. They say A, B, C, and D...the bill is changed to accommodate those requests and they still refused to vote for it. That's some pathetic ass bullshit right there.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
But that's the thing, even during President Obama's two terms, the dems/liberals have been trying to reach across the isle again and again only to be jerked around or flatly rebuffed. This is another false equivalency that we're dealing with two equally immovable objects. The record reflects that the lack of compromise during the better part of the last decade has been coming from the rep/conservative side. Even when the liberals make what I view as WAY TOO MANY concessions, they get shot down by the conservatives. Again, the most blatant example being the Affordable Care Act. Obama talks to the HoR and asks how can I change this to get you to vote for it. They say A, B, C, and D...the bill is changed to accommodate those requests and they still refused to vote for it. That's some pathetic ass bullshit right there.
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This exactly. When Boehner said he agreed with 90% of the ACA so they needed to scrap it and start over with a truly bi-partisan bill, it was over. I think the biggest example of the republicans jerking around and wasting the countries time and money, is the constant try to repeal Obamacare. Either they know they are wasting our time and money, or they have no clue how our government works. Has anyone mentioned to them that the president needs to sign a bill in order for it to become law? Does anyone think Obama is going to sign a bill to repeal the law that is named for him? Also the refusal to even hear the supreme court nominee. All they had to do was go through the motions, then vote no. Instead they look like the kid who got picked last to play basketball, so he took the ball and went home so nobody could play.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
But that's the thing, even during President Obama's two terms, the dems/liberals have been trying to reach across the isle again and again only to be jerked around or flatly rebuffed. This is another false equivalency that we're dealing with two equally immovable objects. The record reflects that the lack of compromise during the better part of the last decade has been coming from the rep/conservative side. Even when the liberals make what I view as WAY TOO MANY concessions, they get shot down by the conservatives. Again, the most blatant example being the Affordable Care Act. Obama talks to the HoR and asks how can I change this to get you to vote for it. They say A, B, C, and D...the bill is changed to accommodate those requests and they still refused to vote for it. That's some pathetic ass bullshit right there.
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if you look and the systemic problem with the two parties, they're both guilty, not just over the obama administration. the dems during reagan and bush were just as bad as the reps today. the two party system IS the problem, because you will ALWAYS have an 'us versus them' situation. the gop is only the current offender.

as to the ACA, the one thing that NEEDS to be taken out of that is the "you will get fined if you don't have health insurance" bullshit. that is the government seriously overstepping it's bounds. affordable health care is not affordable for millions of people and to fine them for not being able to afford it is fucking facism.
 
mongooz said:
if you look and the systemic problem with the two parties, they're both guilty, not just over the obama administration. the dems during reagan and bush were just as bad as the reps today. the two party system IS the problem, because you will ALWAYS have an 'us versus them' situation. the gop is only the current offender.

as to the ACA, the one thing that NEEDS to be taken out of that is the "you will get fined if you don't have health insurance" bullshit. that is the government seriously overstepping it's bounds. affordable health care is not affordable for millions of people and to fine them for not being able to afford it is fucking facism.
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I think if you look at the house and senate votes during the Bush years, you will see that is not correct. If it was how you say it is, Clinton would not have voted for the war. And thank god she did or Trump would only have emails and NAFTA to talk about.

As for the forcing people for health insurance, it isn't over stepping. States force you to have car insurance or pay a non insured fee. Also if you are in an accident and don't have health insurance, the hospital still treats you. When you don't pay, they end up jacking up prices to cover the losses so everyone else ends up paying for it.
 
Mark Wein said:
e29870313c1cd5e078bb6f8e00b71583.jpg


Jack helped me vote. I was so tempted to write his name in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Our local ballot has sideways ovals like old mark sense forms. Filling mine out today. Helped out at a local fund raiser and meet and greet last night with the local candidates. They are good people and are working hard. That made me feel good.
 
mongooz said:
if you look and the systemic problem with the two parties, they're both guilty, not just over the obama administration. the dems during reagan and bush were just as bad as the reps today. the two party system IS the problem, because you will ALWAYS have an 'us versus them' situation. the gop is only the current offender.

as to the ACA, the one thing that NEEDS to be taken out of that is the "you will get fined if you don't have health insurance" bullshit. that is the government seriously overstepping it's bounds. affordable health care is not affordable for millions of people and to fine them for not being able to afford it is fucking facism.
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree. Tip O'Neal used to call Reagan and they'd meet to hammer out details to get bills passed that worked for both sides and what they collectively felt was a the greater good. Reps worked relatively well with Clinton, no real or extended gridlock there. Historically there's a been a give and take / ebb and flow that still allowed things to get done. But looking at the last decade, the wall that's impeding progress has been built with Reps/conservatives that will not concede a single fucking thing to anyone that doesn't want to do exactly what they want.

Negotiation is a concept and art that is lost on the tea party people and those once moderate Republicans sold their moderation to ally themselves with the Christian-conservative movement. Their short to longterm gains via that movement have destroyed their party. And still the dems/liberals keep trying to work with them.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
Gotta disagree. Tip O'Neal used to call Reagan and they'd meet to hammer out details to get bills passed that worked for both sides and what they collectively felt was a the greater good. Reps worked relatively well with Clinton, no real or extended gridlock there. Historically there's a been a give and take / ebb and flow that still allowed things to get done. But looking at the last decade, the wall that's impeding progress has been built with Reps/conservatives that will not concede a single fucking thing to anyone that doesn't want to do exactly what they want.

Negotiation is a concept and art that is lost on the tea party people and those once moderate Republicans sold their moderation to ally themselves with the Christian-conservative movement. Their short to longterm gains via that movement have destroyed their party. And still the dems/liberals keep trying to work with them.
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Absolutely this--all of it.
 
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