OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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mikesr1963 said:
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Kaine acted like he was debating Trump, Pence definitely had better form. However, you couldn't help but notice that no matter how much Pence insisted he would defend Trump, he didn't answer the charges Kaine kept bringing up. Pence also kept insisting Trump hadn't said things that everyone knows he's on record as having said.
 
mikesr1963 said:
Kaine's an idiot.

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Nixon didn't resign over the erased tapes. Nixon resigned because of the mounting evidence of his knowledge (if not approval) of the Watergate break in, and worse, he tried to cover it it up, and then lied about the cover up. Nixon was seriously facing jail time. His resignation was the end result of the deal he made with Ford: resignation for pardon.

Clinton's 30,000 emails that were deleted were ones deemed personal in nature. She had the legal authority to do so. See this for all the gory details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy
 
Pence "won" the debate in my opinion. And I hate both of the guys on his ticket. I was rooting for Kaine but I was disappointed in him.

In terms of substance and actually answering questions, Kaine had the edge. But these things, sadly, are more about optics and what plays out in the sticks. Pence seemed calmer, more relaxed. Kaine was nervous and agitated, rushing through his answers and interrupting. I was really surprised by that, given how badly Trump got slammed for doing the same thing last Monday.
 
I did think that Kaine got stronger towards the end of the debate, and his answers on women's issues were the best he looked all night.
 
Is there any point to the position of VP, aside from the occasional tie breaker vote in congress and the presidential backup if shit goes south?
 
BlockInlay said:
Is there any point to the position of VP, aside from the occasional tie breaker vote in congress and the presidential backup if shit goes south?
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if trump gets elected there will be a point to the VP position. because trump will resign in 6 months and pence will be POTUS. :mad:
 
Regular duties
As President of the Senate (Article I, Section 3, Clause 4), the vice president oversees procedural matters and may cast a tie-breaking vote. There is a strong convention within the U.S. Senate that the vice president should not use their position as President of the Senate to influence the passage of legislation or act in a partisan manner, except in the case of breaking tie votes. As President of the Senate, John Adams cast twenty-nine tie-breaking votes, a record no successor except John C. Calhoun ever threatened. Adams's votes protected the president's sole authority over the removal of appointees, influenced the location of the national capital, and prevented war with Great Britain. On at least one occasion Adams persuaded senators to vote against legislation he opposed, and he frequently addressed the Senate on procedural and policy matters. Adams's political views and his active role in the Senate made him a natural target for critics of George Washington's administration. Toward the end of his first term, a threatened resolution that would have silenced him except for procedural and policy matters caused him to exercise more restraint in hopes of seeing his election as President of the United States.

Formerly, the vice president would preside regularly over Senate proceedings, but in modern times, the vice president rarely presides over day-to-day matters in the Senate; in their place, the Senate chooses a President pro tempore (or "president for a time") to preside in the vice president's absence; the Senate normally selects the longest-serving senator in the majority party. The President pro tempore has the power to appoint any other senator to preside, and in practice junior senators from the majority party are assigned the task of presiding over the Senate at most times.

Except for this tie-breaking role, the Standing Rules of the Senate vest no significant responsibilities in the vice president. Rule XIX, which governs debate, does not authorize the vice president to participate in debate, and grants only to members of the Senate (and, upon appropriate notice, former presidents of the United States) the privilege of addressing the Senate, without granting a similar privilege to the sitting vice president. Thus, as Time magazine wrote during the controversial tenure of Vice President Charles G. Dawes, "once in four years the Vice President can make a little speech, and then he is done. For four years he then has to sit in the seat of the silent, attending to speeches ponderous or otherwise, of deliberation or humor."[16]

Recurring, infrequent duties
The President of the Senate also presides over counting and presentation of the votes of the Electoral College. This process occurs in the presence of both houses of Congress, generally on January 6 of the year following a U.S. presidential election.[17] In this capacity, only four vice presidents have been able to announce their own election to the presidency: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Van Buren, and George H. W. Bush. At the beginning of 1961, it fell to Richard Nixon to preside over this process, which officially announced the election of his 1960 opponent, John F. Kennedy. In 2001, Al Gore announced the election of his opponent, George W. Bush. In 1969, Vice President Hubert Humphrey would have announced the election of his opponent, Richard Nixon; however, on the date of the Congressional joint session (January 6), Humphrey was in Norway attending the funeral of Trygve Lie, the first elected Secretary-General of the United Nations.[18]

In 1933, incumbent Vice President Charles Curtis announced the election of House Speaker John Nance Garner as his successor, while Garner was seated next to him on the House dais.

The President of the Senate may also preside over most of the impeachment trials of federal officers. However, whenever the President of the United States is impeached, the US Constitution requires the Chief Justice of the United States to preside over the Senate for the trial. The Constitution is silent as to the presiding officer in the instance where the vice president is the officer impeached.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Regular_duties
 
smurfco said:
Pence "won" the debate in my opinion. And I hate both of the guys on his ticket. I was rooting for Kaine but I was disappointed in him.

In terms of substance and actually answering questions, Kaine had the edge. But these things, sadly, are more about optics and what plays out in the sticks. Pence seemed calmer, more relaxed. Kaine was nervous and agitated, rushing through his answers and interrupting. I was really surprised by that, given how badly Trump got slammed for doing the same thing last Monday.
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See that's the thing: Kaine was aggressive and maybe over-eager, but almost to a fault truthful.

Pence was smooth and relaxed, while lying his ass off.

My preference nearly always goes with the more truthful.
 
I was pretty surprised by Kaine's aggressiveness. Going into the debate, I was sure that Kaine was going to win, because all he had to do was stay calm and stick to pointing out Trump's many ridiculous statements. The debate was his to lose. Unfortunately, he did exactly that. I'm betting he got a new asshole ripped after the debate.

While he may have very well still won on a facts, most voters don't care about facts. They just saw an agitated, slightly creepy looking politician continually badgering a collected and slightly less creepy looking politician. No one will care about Pence's repeated claims that Trump didn't say the stupid things that he did indeed say.

And I can't believe Kaine didn't bring up Pence's "religious freedom" law.
 
sonik said:
Regular duties
As President of the Senate (Article I, Section 3, Clause 4), the vice president oversees procedural matters and may cast a tie-breaking vote. There is a strong convention within the U.S. Senate that the vice president should not use their position as President of the Senate to influence the passage of legislation or act in a partisan manner, except in the case of breaking tie votes. As President of the Senate, John Adams cast twenty-nine tie-breaking votes, a record no successor except John C. Calhoun ever threatened. Adams's votes protected the president's sole authority over the removal of appointees, influenced the location of the national capital, and prevented war with Great Britain. On at least one occasion Adams persuaded senators to vote against legislation he opposed, and he frequently addressed the Senate on procedural and policy matters. Adams's political views and his active role in the Senate made him a natural target for critics of George Washington's administration. Toward the end of his first term, a threatened resolution that would have silenced him except for procedural and policy matters caused him to exercise more restraint in hopes of seeing his election as President of the United States.

Formerly, the vice president would preside regularly over Senate proceedings, but in modern times, the vice president rarely presides over day-to-day matters in the Senate; in their place, the Senate chooses a President pro tempore (or "president for a time") to preside in the vice president's absence; the Senate normally selects the longest-serving senator in the majority party. The President pro tempore has the power to appoint any other senator to preside, and in practice junior senators from the majority party are assigned the task of presiding over the Senate at most times.

Except for this tie-breaking role, the Standing Rules of the Senate vest no significant responsibilities in the vice president. Rule XIX, which governs debate, does not authorize the vice president to participate in debate, and grants only to members of the Senate (and, upon appropriate notice, former presidents of the United States) the privilege of addressing the Senate, without granting a similar privilege to the sitting vice president. Thus, as Time magazine wrote during the controversial tenure of Vice President Charles G. Dawes, "once in four years the Vice President can make a little speech, and then he is done. For four years he then has to sit in the seat of the silent, attending to speeches ponderous or otherwise, of deliberation or humor."[16]

Recurring, infrequent duties
The President of the Senate also presides over counting and presentation of the votes of the Electoral College. This process occurs in the presence of both houses of Congress, generally on January 6 of the year following a U.S. presidential election.[17] In this capacity, only four vice presidents have been able to announce their own election to the presidency: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Van Buren, and George H. W. Bush. At the beginning of 1961, it fell to Richard Nixon to preside over this process, which officially announced the election of his 1960 opponent, John F. Kennedy. In 2001, Al Gore announced the election of his opponent, George W. Bush. In 1969, Vice President Hubert Humphrey would have announced the election of his opponent, Richard Nixon; however, on the date of the Congressional joint session (January 6), Humphrey was in Norway attending the funeral of Trygve Lie, the first elected Secretary-General of the United Nations.[18]

In 1933, incumbent Vice President Charles Curtis announced the election of House Speaker John Nance Garner as his successor, while Garner was seated next to him on the House dais.

The President of the Senate may also preside over most of the impeachment trials of federal officers. However, whenever the President of the United States is impeached, the US Constitution requires the Chief Justice of the United States to preside over the Senate for the trial. The Constitution is silent as to the presiding officer in the instance where the vice president is the officer impeached.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Regular_duties
Click to expand...

So basically, modern-era VP is the highest slack off position that a slacker can aspire to?

(that was a literal use of the word "era", not a Kennedy "erah")
 
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