OK, I'm just going to say it...

[Tiltsta]

I know I dont really have any business posting this, but feel like I should especially after a few comments made to me recently.

This is exactly what I hoped Mark's place would never turn into. Used to be that everyone here really and truly gave a real shit about each other. Thankfully I'm still connected to many of you on FB (with one or two glaring exceptions). Seeing the real serious bad blood here is fuckin heartbreaking. Felt it coming on for many many months now. I miss you guys a lot but this attitude anymore is depressing. Internet gladiators reveling in the virtual combat. It's not my place, it's Mark's, so I keep my mouth shut and barely come here anymore.

I guess my point in posting this is to let you know one of the biggest reasons why, for those of you who have mentioned it. Everything I said in my last post was true. It's harder and harder for me to post here what with work being ever busier and the kids are growing up so fast, but when I do get a chance to come here it's just been consistently more tense or with a new shitstorm brewing or having already gone nuclear. I really dont understand why, either...I'm FB friends with a lot of you, and some of you are absolute polar opposites of me and my worldview and yet I count you as friends, we respect each other without having to be told to play nice. We do because we're cool, and mature, and have at least some level of fondness for one another.

Used to be Mark didnt have to come in here and say "Now children, dont do this, dont say nasty things about each other, dont make my forum which is used for my business be a place that may frighten away potential customers and please try to get along". We did those things cause we all wanted to and enjoyed hanging out with each other, and all of us wanted to see Mark's forum grow as well and be mature, enjoyable, and a good reflection on him.

I'm sorry to see it go. I'm sorry to the people that I'm not connected to by means other than this forum (Im hoping you know who you are) for not being around anymore. Im not taking sides here, or trying to call any one specific person out. I'm honestly just stunned and saddened by seeing shit like this.

yeah, ditto. You should friend request me.

As for Mo, he has some real life things in he way of moderation right now. Everyone needs a little little space sometimes, and Mo has been nothing short of the best mod ever, so he has an open pass.

 

[cfgsteak]

Chihiliiihilllii pretty much nailed it for me. Well put.

 

[CBHScott]

Ditto for me, too.

 

[Mrs.P]

Lol. At least make it interesting. Today I'm Batman, tomorrow I'm Wonder Woman, next week I'll be God.

lmbo I just read this line in that creepy Jack Nicholson voice! It made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

 

[FenderPusher]

I guess I don't see the drastic evolution of this forum, save the odd thread here and there which is bound to happen as the community grows. Maybe I'm not as involved as some of you cats are but this is the forum I call home day in and day out and I just haven't seen a good enough reason to leave in terms of the membership.

 

[2manband]

I always liked the duality of MWGL and HCGJ. I could go to HC for a grand old shitstorm, and then come over here for something more relaxed and low key. And I actually enjoyed the grand old shitstorm - there's something fun about arguing a topic just for sport. It's like debate club. It's a shame that some forumites couldn't leave it at that, and would have to take the low road/personal attacks, but those are the ones that generally drop out of the community over time due to bans, or dramatic hissyfit exits, or whatever.

I think that with the downfall of HC there are a lot of forumites looking for a new place to rekindle the shitstormery, but I've always tried to check that part of my internet persona at the door when coming here.

 

[GomezAddams]

I guess I'll throw in my $.02 ...

Diversity in ideas is a good thing for any community (real or online) to have. Debating with others (even over silly points) is a good way to examine your own ideas and question why you think the way you do.

Diversity naturally leads to controversy and adversity - there is just no way around it. In real life, we are generally highly motivated not to take things too far and change a debate into a confrontation (we don't want to get our ass kicked). Fortunately, in real life, we have lots of non-verbal signals to warn us that we are going too far, and to back off. Online communities remove both the non-verbal feedback AND the motivation not to cause conflict. We can't see the visual cues that would normally make us back off, and we know there aren't any physical repercussions to pissing someone off.

Fortunately, there is an easy way to handle this problem. The way to stop forum shitstorms isn't to discourage controversial postings or eliminate controversial posters. The solution is that people need to simply not respond to personal attacks (to themselves or others). Period.

I've participated in several lively debates on HC (spoiler tags, Gibson's Indian rosewood bust, etc) where people attacked me personally, but I simply did not respond and the threads continued on as interesting debates instead of turning into Jerry Springer episodes.

So here is my challenge to my fellow forumites: Make a vow that from here on out, you will NOT respond to personal attacks. Ever. No matter what the comment, or who it involves. Giving in to butthurt is the dark side of the force.

 

[rsadasiv]

I guess I'll throw in my $.02 ...

Diversity in ideas is a good thing for any community (real or online) to have. Debating with others (even over silly points) is a good way to examine your own ideas and question why you think the way you do.

Diversity naturally leads to controversy and adversity - there is just no way around it. In real life, we are generally highly motivated not to take things too far and change a debate into a confrontation (we don't want to get our ass kicked). Fortunately, in real life, we have lots of non-verbal signals to warn us that we are going too far, and to back off. Online communities remove both the non-verbal feedback AND the motivation not to cause conflict. We can't see the visual cues that would normally make us back off, and we know there aren't any physical repercussions to pissing someone off.

Fortunately, there is an easy way to handle this problem. The way to stop forum shitstorms isn't to discourage controversial postings or eliminate controversial posters. The solution is that people need to simply not respond to personal attacks (to themselves or others). Period.

I've participated in several lively debates on HC (spoiler tags, Gibson's Indian rosewood bust, etc) where people attacked me personally, but I simply did not respond and the threads continued on as interesting debates instead of turning into Jerry Springer episodes.

So here is my challenge to my fellow forumites: Make a vow that from here on out, you will NOT respond to personal attacks. Ever. No matter what the comment, or who it involves. Giving in to butthurt is the dark side of the force.

I am offended by your comment. How could you say something like that?

 

[Alex W]

I guess I'll throw in my $.02 ...

Diversity in ideas is a good thing for any community (real or online) to have. Debating with others (even over silly points) is a good way to examine your own ideas and question why you think the way you do.

Diversity naturally leads to controversy and adversity - there is just no way around it. In real life, we are generally highly motivated not to take things too far and change a debate into a confrontation (we don't want to get our ass kicked). Fortunately, in real life, we have lots of non-verbal signals to warn us that we are going too far, and to back off. Online communities remove both the non-verbal feedback AND the motivation not to cause conflict. We can't see the visual cues that would normally make us back off, and we know there aren't any physical repercussions to pissing someone off.

Fortunately, there is an easy way to handle this problem. The way to stop forum shitstorms isn't to discourage controversial postings or eliminate controversial posters. The solution is that people need to simply not respond to personal attacks (to themselves or others). Period.

I've participated in several lively debates on HC (spoiler tags, Gibson's Indian rosewood bust, etc) where people attacked me personally, but I simply did not respond and the threads continued on as interesting debates instead of turning into Jerry Springer episodes.

So here is my challenge to my fellow forumites: Make a vow that from here on out, you will NOT respond to personal attacks. Ever. No matter what the comment, or who it involves. Giving in to butthurt is the dark side of the force.

 

[baimun]

This is a relatively diverse forum that is capable of debating issues without getting too heated. Even with recent issues like the Boston Bombing and Jason Collins coming out on his sexuality, the moderators never had to get too nervous about having to lock down threads.


But after the most recent HC meltdown and people transitioning here, there was that big dust up that culminated in three well known forumites leaving. Different portions of the forum had different love/hate issues with each of the three that left, but most of us accepted the void of them leaving in the sake of overall community peace.


Then the name of one of the three is mentioned and he pops back up out of the lurking woodwork. If one can come back, why not all three... and then watch it devolve back into the combustive HC-ish shitfests that caused the meltdown in the first place. I was the loudest voice, but there are many members here who don't want to see that downhill slide.

 

[BATCAT]

I don't know, for all the talk of there being a bunch of drama and horrible disruptions in the force, it just seems like there's a small handful of people that don't get along. Is it really that bad? This forum seems ridiculously chill like 98% of the time.

 

[Phil513]

I don't know, for all the talk of there being a bunch of drama and horrible disruptions in the force, it just seems like there's a small handful of people that don't get along. Is it really that bad? This forum seems ridiculously chill like 98% of the time.

Yeah, i think that is what makes the blow ups look all that much worse.

 

[reverend1]

I don't know, for all the talk of there being a bunch of drama and horrible disruptions in the force, it just seems like there's a small handful of people that don't get along. Is it really that bad? This forum seems ridiculously chill like 98% of the time.

Fuck you dick! I mean, hi Actionsquid.

 

[Mark Wein]

Yeah, i think that is what makes the blow ups look all that much worse.

I think this is how I look at it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cuffdc]

I don't know, for all the talk of there being a bunch of drama and horrible disruptions in the force, it just seems like there's a small handful of people that don't get along. Is it really that bad? This forum seems ridiculously chill like 98% of the time.

My thoughts exactly. This forum is awesome.

 

[GomezAddams]

Mark, Someone mentioned that perhaps shitstorms could be moved to another forum area - I'll add to that idea. I doubt vBulletin can do this, but here's an idea:

Have a forum area called "Time-out". Mods could move shitstorm threads to that forum - and here's the neat trick - the only people who could see the thread are the people posting in it before the move. This way, the original participants could fling poo at each other to their hearts' content, and no one else would be subject to it.

An option to this would be to lock the participants to posting in *only* that one thread so long as they continue posting there. No posting allowed in other threads until, say, 48 hours after their last post in the shitstorm thread. Sort of a self-imposed banning.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

Mark, Someone mentioned that perhaps shitstorms could be moved to another forum area - I'll add to that idea. I doubt vBulletin can do this, but here's an idea:

Have a forum area called "Time-out". Mods could move shitstorm threads to that forum - and here's the neat trick - the only people who could see the thread are the people posting in it before the move. This way, the original participants could fling poo at each other to their hearts' content, and no one else would be subject to it.

An option to this would be to lock the participants to posting in *only* that one thread so long as they continue posting there. No posting allowed in other threads until, say, 48 hours after their last post in the shitstorm thread. Sort of a self-imposed banning.

That area is called Harmony Central.

 

[BATCAT]

That area is called Harmony Central.

Was called Harmony Central. Nobody posts there anymore.

 

[Mrs.P]

Was called Harmony Central. Nobody posts there anymore.

Then the three of them could build their own website and duke it out there and not on mark's board. icon_conf

 

[Flamencology]

Then the name of one of the three is mentioned and he pops back up out of the lurking woodwork. If one can come back, why not all three... and then watch it devolve back into the combustive HC-ish shitfests that caused the meltdown in the first place.

My simplest and most bottom line answer to that is that I'm the only one of those three that Mark neither asked to leave, not suggested that it would be good for the forum if I did. Were it not for that, I wouldn't be here, plain and simple.

If you go back and look at how that thread turned out, you'll see that I bit my tongue until OGG threw out his "I just sent an email to my industry contacts to do you professional damage" email on GJ. That was crossing a huge line, and hiding between the shield of GJ just doesn't cut it - MWGL can't work if people do shit like that, one way or another, just because they only discuss it at GJ. And I felt it was important that MWGLers know what kind of man they were dealing with. As noted, if I had my time back, I'd have addressed this with the mods over PM; I was angry, and snapped out. I hope to have learned that lesson.

And I guarantee you 100% that I'd have defended yourself or OGG or anyone else had those circumstances been on the other foot.

As for you... you clearly don't like me, and I've gotten a handful of passive-aggressive anonymous "disapproval" notices from forumites who lack the transparency, etc., to speak their minds. I know where I stand. But I've been posting here about as long as everyone else, contribute about as much as most, and I feel I have as much a right to be here as anyone until Mark tells me otherwise, and I've returned to air things out. I don't know if I'll stick around, but if I don't, it won't be because of cliques and bullying. I have lots of friends here.