Jangle sound. Mostly in Rock/pop context. What guitars?

sunvalleylaw said:
That eventide is expensive used. That Digitech Whammy Five @Modern Saint posted, if it works for what I want, could boot the old school Snarling Dog off the board and take its place. And that and the stuff in the M9 could then just get me there, and I would have one fewer guitars to string.
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Ask @Andrew Sak and @rickenvox SVL. Tagged them here but they were at my TP show when I used the Whammy 5 to emulate a 12 string. IIRC, @rickenvox asked me how I did it.
 
sunvalleylaw said:
So how he had that pedal and his effects set up did a good job of emulating or getting the feel of an electric 12 string, I take it? Just to be specific, as @Modern Saint is a very good player and I am sure whatever show I saw would be impressive.
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I'm not qualified to answer that. I currently play only acoustic/classical fingerstyle guitar with no bells or whistles. I have no idea how you guys do what you do. We really enjoyed the show however. The whole band sounded tight and professional.
Sorry I couldn't help with the technical question.
 
So, on a work break, was thinking about 12 string sound again. Was thinking about the Godin A12, finding a used one sometime next year, but was then thinking it is just a little too acoustic and LedZep sounding for what I want, and not quite jangle oriented enough.

This vid kinda seems to confirm that for me.

The Godin would do The Church sound I like, but that is just one song, and most of the reason I am interested in a 12 string is the Byrds-ish and forward jangle sound.

This McGuinn vid has some interesting info, about the guitar sound and gear, and also the techniques.



So, thinking if I get one at some point, it will be more like the Reverend one or something like that.

More McGuinn discussion, from later, and his banjo rolling technique here. I can't really do that very effectively yet and will at some point have to learn.

 
Here’s a Spotify Jangle pop list — there’s some 12-string stuff on it obviously, but it’s not all doing the Byrds/Hard Days Night thing.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/31vdE2ocXKz1Zmd7jrUqWO?si=OPClmCa5QAm-f8NFQJQ3iQ

You’ve got a strat, right? I’d choose the middle pickup or one of the inbetween positions and maybe some light doubling chorus and compression and just start getting that arpeggios hand strong. A lot of it is just simple, repetitive partial chord moves on two or three strings.

McGuinn is doing more folky technique stuff, but check out some online lessons/covers of stuff like Harrison’s Beatles cut “If I Needed Someone” that’s a Byrds homage and gets the same vibe without the Travis picking elements if that isn’t yr bag.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Here’s a Spotify Jangle pop list — there’s some 12-string stuff on it obviously, but it’s not all doing the Byrds/Hard Days Night thing.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/31vdE2ocXKz1Zmd7jrUqWO?si=OPClmCa5QAm-f8NFQJQ3iQ

You’ve got a strat, right? I’d choose the middle pickup or one of the inbetween positions and maybe some light doubling chorus and compression and just start getting that arpeggios hand strong. A lot of it is just simple, repetitive partial chord moves on two or three strings.

McGuinn is doing more folky technique stuff, but check out some online lessons/covers of stuff like Harrison’s Beatles cut “If I Needed Someone” that’s a Byrds homage and gets the same vibe without the Travis picking elements if that isn’t yr bag.
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Thanks. Will be working on that, arpeggios thing going, as I work through Mark’s new lesson series, which I am taking slowly and trying to really understand fully, including the fretboard and triad stuff, including the altering the triads and then chords and arpeggios based on the triads to get minor, diminished and augmented versions. Along with that, rebuilding my playing in time and subdividing time, from the ground up using those lessons. And so working through the arpeggios with normal alternate flat picking is part of the what I want to do. As a part of that, I want to add some Travis picking, finger picking etc. elements to add that to my things I can to, hopefully incorporating melody bits like McGuinn mentions in that first vid I posted, to go with adding in melody bits in a kinda sorta Hendrix-y way.

Basically, my goal is to improve my fretboard knowledge so I can play things in different places without thinking too much, do so in time, have a few ways of doing so, particularly a couple ways that incorporate both rhythm and melody, and through that build repertoire and come up with my sound, or a couple “my sounds.” Which will likely be somewhat derivative, but I don’t really care about that. For me, with other responsibilities, this will take some time. Gonna break down these goals a little, and put some time goals on them also, using Mark’s lessons and a way to move along a bit. Will take a while.

So your suggestion is a nice intermediate step I hadn’t thought of that helps me have motivation to work through some of this. Thanks! And I might use something like that to help me work through some other parts of the path. Find a song to play along with, slowed down if I need to with my app I have, to work on/ play with these things.

Also, sorry about the TLDR post. Ended up using the reply to jot down some guitar goal setting thoughts over the first morning cuppa. :)

@Help!I'maRock! (see current concept of my study plan).
 
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sunvalleylaw said:
Thanks. Will be working on that, arpeggios thing going, as I work through Mark’s new lesson series, which I am taking slowly and trying to really understand fully, including the fretboard and triad stuff, including the altering the triads and then chords and arpeggios based on the triads to get minor, diminished and augmented versions. Along with that, rebuilding my playing in time and subdividing time, from the ground up using those lessons. And so working through the arpeggios with normal alternate flat picking is part of the what I want to do. As a part of that, I want to add some Travis picking, finger picking etc. elements to add that to my things I can to, hopefully incorporating melody bits like McGuinn mentions in that first vid I posted, to go with adding in melody bits in a kinda sorta Hendrix-y way.

Basically, my goal is to improve my fretboard knowledge so I can play things in different places without thinking too much, do so in time, have a few ways of doing so, particularly a couple ways that incorporate both rhythm and melody, and through that build repertoire and come up with my sound, or a couple “my sounds.” Which will likely be somewhat derivative, but I don’t really care about that. For me, with other responsibilities, this will take some time. Gonna break down these goals a little, and put some time goals on them also, using Mark’s lessons and a way to move along a bit. Will take a while.

So your suggestion is a nice intermediate step I hadn’t thought of that helps me have motivation to work through some of this. Thanks! And I might use something like that to help me work through some other parts of the path. Find a song to play along with, slowed down if I need to with my app I have, to work on/ play with these things.

Also, sorry about the TLDR post. Ended up using the reply to jot down some guitar goal setting thoughts over the first morning cuppa. :)

@Help!I'maRock! (see current concept of my study plan).
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Just don’t let Mark Wein teach you too much re: expression and feeling. Because those sorts of things are bad news for jangle pop. :)

Seriously, there’s kind of a preference for stiff/expressionless clockwork action for jangley stuff (be it folk rock, post punk, paisley underground, etc.). Avoidance of swing. Less reliance on bluesy bends and note choices. Lots of straight ahead harmonies. A kind of performatively white musicality. Lots of diatonic choices when coming up with parts.

If you wanna go down a rabbit hole on what this might mean...

Amazon product ASIN 0754651908
Jangle pop and Byrdsian folk rock is kinda bound up with Anglophile stuff and imagined Eurocentric “folk” traditions and medieval cosplay and whitewashed bohemias.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Just don’t let Mark Wein teach you too much re: expression and feeling. Because those sorts of things are bad news for jangle pop. :)

Seriously, there’s kind of a preference for stiff/expressionless clockwork action for jangley stuff (be it folk rock, post punk, paisley underground, etc.). Avoidance of swing. Less reliance on bluesy bends and note choices. Lots of straight ahead harmonies. A kind of performatively white musicality. Lots of diatonic choices when coming up with parts.

If you wanna go down a rabbit hole on what this might mean...

Amazon product ASIN 0754651908
Jangle pop and Byrdsian folk rock is kinda bound up with Anglophile stuff and imagined Eurocentric “folk” traditions and medieval cosplay and whitewashed bohemias.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Well, I will want to learn to play it then, and also play with swing and expression like the Weinlord is teaching, and combine “rhythm” and “lead” like Hendrix, and Neil Young too, who does it differently. And hopefully I can get my time down well enough so I can Anglophile it out, maybe with some Monty Python thrown in for humor, and also swing when I want. I was raised on a swing timing all my life, listening to my Dad, and my Dad’s listening preferences, coming from a swing jazz point of view on the world.

And though I am not the hugest blues bender type, and a lot of times like sliding in or hammer pulling in better, I do like to put in those blue notes. Probably not a jangle thing. But what the hell.

THEN, maybe I can mash that all up like I like to do with Thanksgiving dinner, and if I do it well, like I do my own dinner plate (at least in my view), I will be able to come up with my own weird voice or a couple of them. What with my Sybil-sequel/libra-esque tendencies.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Seriously, there’s kind of a preference for stiff/expressionless clockwork action for jangley stuff (be it folk rock, post punk, paisley underground, etc.). Avoidance of swing. Less reliance on bluesy bends and note choices. Lots of straight ahead harmonies. A kind of performatively white musicality. Lots of diatonic choices when coming up with parts
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This is insightful.

A lot of what we do as guitarists has a blues base, and we hold on the bent notes, stagger the beat a bit, stuff like that. Jangle pop is much more mechanical in the rhythm.

This is not the same, but it reminds me of when you're trying to show a more blues/rock based player how to play country, and you have to tell them to not linger, keep moving forward.
 
24a71a1af7f8c6ebe039dc08768eedd5_380x0.jpg


Once I get the hippie sandwich up and running, I'm going to restring my piezo loaded Ibanez with these.
 
Motorik said:
This is insightful.

A lot of what we do as guitarists has a blues base, and we hold on the bent notes, stagger the beat a bit, stuff like that. Jangle pop is much more mechanical in the rhythm.

This is not the same, but it reminds me of when you're trying to show a more blues/rock based player how to play country, and you have to tell them to not linger, keep moving forward.
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You'll find this is true in harmony singing, too. It's possible to do soulful/bluesy harmony, but the default is "white"/straight stuff.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
24a71a1af7f8c6ebe039dc08768eedd5_380x0.jpg


Once I get the hippie sandwich up and running, I'm going to restring my piezo loaded Ibanez with these.
Click to expand...

Wonder how those will work out with a nut cut for heavier strings. I just swapped to 9s on my black tele and the low E string rattled when played open.
 
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