Charlottesville

Personally, I don't feel all that threatened by redneck douchebags with Tiki torches...ignorance is universal, and you can't fix stupid, but you can sit back and relax knowing that ignorance and stupidity specializes in calling attention to itself...

That's pretty easy to say when you and all of your loved ones aren't part of a visible minority. Dealing with racism on a daily basis, even if it's on the smallest end of the spectrum, is an entirely different story.
 
Meanwhile, here is what we should not lose focus on:
Donald Trump administration 'wants to cut white supremacism from counter-extremism program
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...amme-neo-nazi-counter-extremism-a7558796.html

Impeccable timing, this one:
N.C. House Votes to Protect Drivers Who Hit Protesters
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...e-votes-to-protect-drivers-who-hit-protesters

And my parting gift
View attachment 35643
I stole that parting gift (I guess it isn't stealing if it is a gift) for my own use. :grin:
 
That's pretty easy to say when you and all of your loved ones aren't part of a visible minority. Dealing with racism on a daily basis, even if it's on the smallest end of the spectrum, is an entirely different story.
Yes, when you are hated because of your race the instant some people see you, it is inescapable. I'll never know what it feels like to be in the shoes of anyone who lives that life every day. Perhaps if I changed appearance...
New-Style-Islamic-Clothing-Muslim-Men-Thobe.jpg_350x350.jpg
 
Personally, I don't feel all that threatened by redneck douchebags with Tiki torches...ignorance is universal, and you can't fix stupid, but you can sit back and relax knowing that ignorance and stupidity specializes in calling attention to itself...
I totally get your point, and say this next not to pick on you but to make a further point. My cousin's kid posted that he feels the same as you. That he does not fear for his safety or for the safety of his children and family. And that to him is the definition of white privilege. Makes one stop and think.
 
I totally get your point, and say this next not to pick on you but to make a further point. My cousin's kid posted that he feels the same as you. That he does not fear for his safety or for the safety of his children and family. And that to him is the definition of white privilege. Makes one stop and think.
These guys were not wearing hoods and burning crosses, they were carrying Tiki torches and fully exposed...white privilege aside THESE are not the ones we need to fear...
 
Fuck you, David.
Fine...

All other requests to the contrary I must respectfully request this thread be closed or rolled into the political thread...

@Mark Wein

And with that I shall once again how out of a discussion that has no business on this forum and cannot be discussed in any reasonable form without raising vitriol and butthurt...
 
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I know this is not a movie we live in. But this scene keeps coming to my mind.



Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you."



There is some meme going around that says something like if you wanted to know what you would have done in Nazi Germany, or during the Civil Rights Movement, or during slavery, now is your chance. So it seems. Seems to me people need to stand up and call a spade a spade, and not put up with it.
 
These guys were not wearing hoods and burning crosses, they were carrying Tiki torches and fully exposed...white privilege aside THESE are not the ones we need to fear...

Who is 'we'?

Those people have done plenty of damage to plenty of people in plenty of ways.
 
I know this is not a movie we live in. But this scene keeps coming to my mind.



Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you."



There is some meme going around that says something like if you wanted to know what you would have done in Nazi Germany, or during the Civil Rights Movement, or during slavery, now is your chance. So it seems. Seems to me people need to stand up and call a spade a spade, and not put up with it.


Indeed. If you hear a friend, neighbour, colleague, family member, etc., use this kind of rhetoric, regardless of whether or not their words were spoken maliciously, now is the time for people to start stepping up and calling people on it.
 
I know this is not a movie we live in. But this scene keeps coming to my mind.



Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you."



There is some meme going around that says something like if you wanted to know what you would have done in Nazi Germany, or during the Civil Rights Movement, or during slavery, now is your chance. So it seems. Seems to me people need to stand up and call a spade a spade, and not put up with it.


i agree.....unfortunately, the racists/supremasists are being enabled by our entire administration. trump......sessions.....pruitt......devos.....tillerson.....they're all white is right assholes.
 
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This is what a leader sounds like.



I listen to talk radio on the way home from my gigs and this was on last night and this guy totally nailed it.

I'm ashamed to say that earlier in my life I was pretty racist, through no real reason, issue or circumstance - my parents aren't racists, no one in my school was a full blown racist and I was never going to burn a cross or beat someone up and get a face tattoo, I just didn't like people of another colour for no real reason...

One Friday night when I was around 14 or 15 and in the house listening to some music something spoke to my soul and told me I was wrong and I shouldn't be judging people based on their creed.

I'm not a religious person but that is a genuine story, an epiphany if you will, and from that day on I've never judged someone based on their race.
 
Theres only two kinds of people in this world.

Those who tolerate Nazis.

Those who do not tolerate Nazis.

It's a very, very, very easy choice unless you're very, very, very stupid.

Furthermore, a fundamental reason that this forum remains a shining light of humor, truth and goodwill in the dark cesspool that is the Internet is because...WE DO NOT TOLERATE NAZIS.
 
Theres only two kinds of people in this world.

Those who tolerate Nazis.

Those who do not tolerate Nazis.

It's a very, very, very easy choice unless you're very, very, very stupid.

Furthermore, a fundamental reason that this forum remains a shining light of humor, truth and goodwill in the dark cesspool that is the Internet is because...WE DO NOT TOLERATE NAZIS.

Right? It's the easiest fucking moral high ground in history. If your response to Charlottesville sounds anything like, "What happened yesterday was horrible, but..." then it's time to fucking examine your belief system and morality compass.
 
I listen to talk radio on the way home from my gigs and this was on last night and this guy totally nailed it.

I'm ashamed to say that earlier in my life I was pretty racist, through no real reason, issue or circumstance - my parents aren't racists, no one in my school was a full blown racist and I was never going to burn a cross or beat someone up and get a face tattoo, I just didn't like people of another colour for no real reason...

One Friday night when I was around 14 or 15 and in the house listening to some music something spoke to my soul and told me I was wrong and I shouldn't be judging people based on their creed.

I'm not a religious person but that is a genuine story, an epiphany if you will, and from that day on I've never judged someone based on their race.

i grew up kind of the opposite. in my high school there were three black kids in the whole school. all three were guys and were some of the nicest people i've ever known. other than what was on tv, i really had no clue what racism was.....and my parents were a bit strict on the point of treating people of color well because they are people too. i watched soultrain just as much as kirschner's rock concert. i was a huge fan of all the r&b/soul stuff that was on the radio (late 60's - 70's). it really wasn't until i was in the USAF and stationed down south that i got an in your face look at real racism. and i mean REAL racism. just north of town was a 'hall'.....just like a VFW.....except it was The Knights of Georgia. not Knights of Columbus......Knights of Georgia.....you know.....white hoods....buring crosses, and it was quite popular in that town. scarey shit.

these days, living in a city, there are times when someone of color does something that really pisses me off, sometimes i have to remind myself that it's an asshole person, not an asshole race.
 
Ok, I didn't realize how my previous post was going to come across...can't eliminate it now, it's been quoted ahead...my intention was to express my feelings that this group is marginal compared to much better organized and funded groups, and that their display should not be looked at as anything more than comical compared to those made by other groups...

I'm not going to apologize for it...had the way it came across been pointed out in a more reasonable fashion I may have...

Either way none of this is changing the way I feel about the forum or the people in it...if it changes the way you look at me, so be it...

Nor am I backing off my request to move this thread to where it belongs...
 
WARNING: Long. Possibly painfully boring.

Because I feel that this is about the most important thing that will happen in my lifetime (born: 1966), I'm going to write a few things and maybe a person or two might find some value there. I hope so, because this horrible turn of events makes me feel despair, and if I've learned anything, it is that solidarity is the antidote to despair.

* "To be fair, if you would just drop the " right wing" from your post I wouldn't see how anyone here could argue against it or feel attacked." No. Anyone who insists on saying that "all sides" are equally responsible is not only in denial, but immediately makes me wonder why they are trying to insist on something that is easily demonstrated to be untrue.

Reality: there is a violent, neo-nazi / right-wing movement in America. It is not at all mirrored by any left-wing, central-wing, chicken wing or Red Wing movement.

* There's no "free speech issue" when you show up armed to the teeth. That's not speech. It's a threat of violence - and in the case of Saturday, actual violence.

* We're supposed to be a nation of laws; part of what makes laws meaningful is equal application of them. Currently, the law is not equally applied, at all. In fact, through a combination of various double standards, excuses, and tortuous explanations, we see that our systems of law are being abandoned by our power structure.


The problem is that you can't have a democracy with the above. It just doesn't work. And as convoluted and frequently hypocritical as American culture can be, one of the most beautiful aspects of our country has been that we do trend back to democratic values as a society.

Not so much any more. This is not about "hey, I'm conservative, you're a liberal." It's about One True Way thinking, dehumanizing ideological and practical opponents, and violence. That's what fascism is.

I do not want to live in a fascist country. But a fair number of folks do.

This is going to be a problem.
 
WARNING: Long. Possibly painfully boring.

Because I feel that this is about the most important thing that will happen in my lifetime (born: 1966), I'm going to write a few things and maybe a person or two might find some value there. I hope so, because this horrible turn of events makes me feel despair, and if I've learned anything, it is that solidarity is the antidote to despair.

* "To be fair, if you would just drop the " right wing" from your post I wouldn't see how anyone here could argue against it or feel attacked." No. Anyone who insists on saying that "all sides" are equally responsible is not only in denial, but immediately makes me wonder why they are trying to insist on something that is easily demonstrated to be untrue.

Reality: there is a violent, neo-nazi / right-wing movement in America. It is not at all mirrored by any left-wing, central-wing, chicken wing or Red Wing movement.

* There's no "free speech issue" when you show up armed to the teeth. That's not speech. It's a threat of violence - and in the case of Saturday, actual violence.

* We're supposed to be a nation of laws; part of what makes laws meaningful is equal application of them. Currently, the law is not equally applied, at all. In fact, through a combination of various double standards, excuses, and tortuous explanations, we see that our systems of law are being abandoned by our power structure.


The problem is that you can't have a democracy with the above. It just doesn't work. And as convoluted and frequently hypocritical as American culture can be, one of the most beautiful aspects of our country has been that we do trend back to democratic values as a society.

Not so much any more. This is not about "hey, I'm conservative, you're a liberal." It's about One True Way thinking, dehumanizing ideological and practical opponents, and violence. That's what fascism is.

I do not want to live in a fascist country. But a fair number of folks do.

This is going to be a problem.
I agree with all of that, but request one clarification...

Were the Nationalists armed? I have not seen any reports of firearms being present...the guy who drove the car into the crowd was sympathetic to, but not part of the group...I also read a report that a counter protester maced the Nationalists...
 
Ok, I didn't realize how my previous post was going to come across...can't eliminate it now, it's been quoted ahead...my intention was to express my feelings that this group is marginal compared to much better organized and funded groups, and that their display should not be looked at as anything more than comical compared to those made by other groups...

I'm not going to apologize for it...had the way it came across been pointed out in a more reasonable fashion I may have...

Either way none of this is changing the way I feel about the forum or the people in it...if it changes the way you look at me, so be it...

Nor am I backing off my request to move this thread to where it belongs...

This is not marginal or comical. This is how it starts.

They are not nationalists. They are White Supremacists. Do not normalize them.
 
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