OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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You mean like this POS I just saw on FB?
FB_IMG_1495581457483.jpg
 
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This kind of moderation is how we got here. It's proven unsuccessful and only breeds further extremism by the group being shunned.

But how to you negotiate with a group who won't negotiate? Those freedom caucus folks are a my way or the highway group. You either give them everything they want or they vote no.
 
But how to you negotiate with a group who won't negotiate? Those freedom caucus folks are a my way or the highway group. You either give them everything they want or they vote no.
which they've been doing consistently for over 8 years.

you don't negotiate with them. you find others that will be civil and reasonable, put the votes together....and out vote them.
 
But how to you negotiate with a group who won't negotiate? Those freedom caucus folks are a my way or the highway group. You either give them everything they want or they vote no.

You go, you talk with them, engage them, and then reject them. But at least make the effort. Rejecting them out of hand only escalates the situation.
 
Why don't local Muslim clerics speak out in spiritual terms after an incident?

For the same reason local or national Christian leaders don't do so after an abortion clinic bombing.

I have actually heard Christian leaders speak out after abortion clinic bombings and distance themselves and their beliefs from the people carrying out those acts. And just for the record, I am not a Christian.

There's a big difference between those 2 religions. There is no fear of reprisals from Christians in this country for drawing cartoons of Jesus or writing books critical of the religion. Doing that in reference to Islam can get you killed anywhere in the world. In fact that's a big reason why there is so little secular scholarship and criticism of the Quran like there is for the Bible. Even Cat Stevens (forgot his current name) publicly agreed with the call to kill author Salman Rushdie for writing The Satanic Verses. Christianity and Jesus are the subject of humor and criticism constantly in the western world, through fiction, scholarship, art, and entertainment (along with Mormonism, Scientology, etc.) with no fear of any serious consequences.

And for the record I also opposed any attempt by Trump at a Muslim ban and believe in religious freedom. But certain religions do not believe in religious freedom. The problem is with all people who are trying to control what other people believe and do. Those are mostly religious people.
 
Watch or read the transcript of this speech from New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu. It might be the single best speech ever given on why Confederate monuments must come down.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a55218/new-orleans-mayor-speech-confederate-monuments/

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i saw that earlier today.
unfortunately.....there are lots and lots of people who've been brainwashed into thinking their 'heritage' is "the south is gonna rise again".....and fight tooth and nail to preserve it. i spent my entire military career down there. it's never going away. can you say lynyrd skynyrd, molly hatchet....et al?
just sayin'
 
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You go, you talk with them, engage them, and then reject them. But at least make the effort. Rejecting them out of hand only escalates the situation.

They've been doing my that since the caucus started. How long do you do that song and dance before you just walk away for good? That group acts like 4 year old kids eventually they need to grow up.
 
They've been doing my that since the caucus started. How long do you do that song and dance before you just walk away for good? That group acts like 4 year old kids eventually they need to grow up.

You do it every time.

It's the reactionary's job to discard opinions and positions out of hand. Nobody calling themselves a moderate should mirror that behavior.
 
i saw that earlier today.
unfortunately.....there are lots and lots of people who've been brainwashed into thinking their 'heritage' is "the south is gonna rise again".....and fight tooth and nail to preserve it. i spent my entire military career down there. it's never going away. can you say lynyrd skynyrd, molly hatchet....et al?
just sayin'

My favorite part of the speech is so revealing:

So, let’s start with the facts.

The historic record is clear: the Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and P.G.T. Beauregard statues were not erected just to honor these men, but as part of the movement which became known as The Cult of the Lost Cause. This ‘cult’ had one goal — through monuments and through other means — to rewrite history to hide the truth, which is that the Confederacy was on the wrong side of humanity.

First erected over 166 years after the founding of our city and 19 years after the end of the Civil War, the monuments that we took down were meant to rebrand the history of our city and the ideals of a defeated Confederacy.

It is self-evident that these men did not fight for the United States of America, They fought against it. They may have been warriors, but in this cause they were not patriots.

These statues are not just stone and metal. They are not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully celebrate a fictional, sanitized Confederacy; ignoring the death, ignoring the enslavement, and the terror that it actually stood for.

After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone’s lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city.

Should you have further doubt about the true goals of the Confederacy, in the very weeks before the war broke out, the Vice President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, made it clear that the Confederate cause was about maintaining slavery and white supremacy.

He said in his now famous ‘Cornerstone speech’ that the Confederacy’s “cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
 
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You do it every time.

It's the reactionary's job to discard opinions and positions out of hand. Nobody calling themselves a moderate should mirror that behavior.

I disagree. At some point you are only encouraging their tactics. You eventually have to tussle their hair and tell them they can come to the grown up table when they can act like grown ups.

Being a moderate doesn't mean you have to dignify an extreme political view, it means you aren't someone with an extreme political view.
 
I disagree. At some point you are only encouraging their tactics. You eventually have to tussle their hair and tell them they can come to the grown up table when they can act like grown ups.

Being a moderate doesn't mean you have to dignify an extreme political view, it means you aren't someone with an extreme political view.

I think it's a better strategy than ignoring them. Spite only makes them harder. :embarrassed:
 
I disagree. At some point you are only encouraging their tactics. You eventually have to tussle their hair and tell them they can come to the grown up table when they can act like grown ups.

Being a moderate doesn't mean you have to dignify an extreme political view, it means you aren't someone with an extreme political view.

exactly. you don't 'negotiate' with racists or nazis. you negotiate with other reasonable groups and you marginalize the extremists. you go around them and then kick them to the curb. if they go ballistic, then the whole nation sees them for what they are. they loose votes. but you do not give up people's safety nets to get points from the 'caucus'.
 
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I think it's a better strategy than ignoring them. Spite only makes them harder. :embarrassed:

The Freedom Caucus has 31 members in the house. If you dont draw up a shitty bill you don't need them. Hook up with moderates from across the isle. Then when the elections roll around, put up a candidate in the primary and funnel the money to unseat the FC member.
 
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