OMG Politics, I'm over it already.
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http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/2...&smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com
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GDSmithTX
Corporate cog
False equivalence, that's what I don't get.
sleewell
Kick Henry Jackassowski
part of me is convinced that this is some cruel joke and at some point a real president is going to emerge. everything he ran on was either a lie or totally not possible and now he is just rubbing our faces in the fact that he conned us and there is nothing that can be done about it.
its hard for me to really accept that our nation is this dumb.
its hard for me to really accept that our nation is this dumb.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politic...omeland-security-plan-photo/?src=socialflowFB
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sleewell
Kick Henry Jackassowski
trump said he will repeal Obama's executive order to require overtime be paid if you make less than 50k and work more than 40 hours per week.
so effectively 20 million or more people voted for him that this will affect and they will get a pay cut on day one. great work!
so effectively 20 million or more people voted for him that this will affect and they will get a pay cut on day one. great work!
BlockInlay
Octavate.band
Is Vegas taking an over/under on the EC voting him out?
mongooz
.
does it matter?
do you think a President Pence would be one bit better? the religious freedom guy? the guy who came up with an indiana state law that made "it ok to discriminate against certain groups, as long as you belong to the correct 'god club' "? that guy?
Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
Yup.
The two sides are very different despite arguments to the contrary. One side generally does not fear differing opinions or religion, education, the standards of journalism, irrational and disproved/unfounded accusations, and much more. The other side got behind a candidate that blatantly used hate and fear in a manner not unlike Hitler. I don't think he's as bad as Hitler and I don't believe he wants to create "concentration" (i.e.: death) camps, but there are a stunning amount of his supporters completely bought that rhetoric.
To Johnny, I've never met anyone that has suggested, let alone said anything as ridiculous as all Republicans are racists, but I have met people that have expressed a notion not dissimilar to all Democrats and liberals being atheists and in some way evil. How does someone with a half a brain even get to that point? It shows extreme religious intolerance. Conversely intolerance of bigotry is hardly something to get angry about. People have their right to bigotry, prejudice, hatred, and even racism, but being disgusted by and disagreeing with that isn't an attack.
The left fringe is angry and dejected, but violence is not part of their agenda...most of them hate guns. The Right fringe includes groups like the KKK and other white supremacy organizations that generally claim to also be Christian. Holy fucking contradiction Batman! People that weren't even part of these organizations seemed ready to go after people at Trump's beck and call. This seems rather similar to the idea that the media was somehow against Trump when merely reporting on what he said and did, but the endless harping on the essentially non-issue of Clinton's emails made up something like 75% or more of the coverage on her. I know tons of folks have been seemingly brainwashed into believing the emails were an issue, but it's clear they weren't (regardless of whether or not everyone is happy about the fact).
Science is not some godless evil, but as mentioned many private institutions related to "conservative" principles act and teach as if it is. Conversely, there are no established atheist institutions in this country. Marist and Georgetown were founded by and still run by Catholic brotherhoods (Jesuit and Franciscan monks) and they accept students from every religion (and provide services on campus to accommodate these various faiths) AND have massive science departments/programs. Religion is not rejection of science and science and a broad education are not a rejection of religion. Freedom of religion affords people the opportunity to not practice a religion. And atheists by the very definition of who they are cannot be agents of a non-existent embodiment of evil...one that is supposedly (based on some translations and adaptations of holy books) a fallen angel of a god in whom they also do not believe.
As someone raised to find my own path and not be forced to follow or believe anything that didn't ring true, I've come to be liberal. However, I was clearly directed in certain areas, in that I was not led to believe I was better than anyone NOR that anyone else was/is better than me. I've always been good with the first part, but struggle with the second all of the time. I was taught not to disparaged others based on any aspect of their being. As touched upon above, I was raised to find only one thing to be intolerable...intolerance. That said, I am under no presumption that this makes it the right way to have been raised, but I can't imagine raising children any differently. It is the way I'm raising my children. My wife and I try to expose to as many different experiences as possible: art, culture, food, etc. I would never tell them that they couldn't: play with certain kids (unless they're assholes...the other kids that is
), like and maybe love someone for any reason, be who they really feel they are or want to be (unless they want to hurt other people), or express their thoughts and feelings on a topic. Similarly I would not allow them to exclude others for doing the same OR for being different.This year we only had one candidate and party run on a message of exclusion, intolerance, fear, and hate. I need to believe everyone here was disgusted by this, but the election has show us that just under half of us are at least tacitly okay with this message. That fucking sucks.
Sorry for another rant. I'm slowly weaning myself from this thread. All the best.
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Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
Yeah Pence is fucking awful. I think Cruz may have been the only other worse "bigger" Republican that Trump could have selected for a running mate.
Sorry, I'm trying...I swear.
Johnny N.
Kick Henry Jackassowski
I wouldn't say equivalent as in the same but equivalent in that both sides, parties, candidates or whatever way you want to look at it are and have been dishonest and misleading in equivalent amounts. That they serve themselves in equivalent amounts. And maybe candidate specific, they have attained equivalent levels of jerk-ness. Lousy word but wasn't sure what words are ok. And yes, one is a more overt jerk and the other pretends not to be but it all amounts to the same thing.
Regardless, you can see it as false and you can hang in there with your team but I see that as the problem. I don't claim to be right about everything but it is what I see creating the division. You want to post funny little gif's suggesting I'm an idiot. That's fine with me, I wont lose sleep. But if we take a step back it looks pretty silly. People are still pounding him, them, and everyone. At some point we have to stop and face the problem. We will be trapped in the "if your team wins you get all of your stuff and I don't get anything" way of thinking. The toughest thing about governing this country is that it is so diverse and there is no ONE way of thinking.
The way I see it we have less than 4 years to figure out a better way. Is time best spent insulting the other side, calling each other dumb bastards or finding the middle ground? Up to each of us to decide I suppose.
mongooz
.
).
Tig
Fucktangular
This reminds me of Dan Rather's response back in June of this year:
"I felt a shudder down my spine yesterday watching Donald Trump’s fusillade against the press. This is not a moment to be trifled with. It wasn’t his first tirade and it won’t be his last.
I was reminded of my college journalism professor, the late Hugh Cunningham, who would exhort his young charges in a thundering voice to “never let them scare you.” It was his most important lesson. One of Edward R. Murrow’s favorite words was “steady.” That also bears repeating today.
This is a dirty, nasty election. And it is only going to get worse. The reporters in the trenches need no lecture from me. They are walking through daily minefields, bracing themselves against winds of discontent whose effects no one can predict.
I know what it is like to sit in those seats and feel the scorn and even wrath of politicians of all political persuasions. Attacking the press for unfair coverage has long been a bipartisan pursuit. Sometimes it works. I am happy to say that more often it doesn’t. But Trump’s brand of vituperation is particularly personal and vicious. It carries with it the drumbeats of threatening violence. It cannot be left unanswered.
This is not about politics or policy. It’s about protecting our most cherished principles. The relationship between the press and the powerful they cover is by its very definition confrontational. That is how the Founding Fathers envisioned it, with noble clauses of protection enshrined in our Constitution.
Good journalism–the kind that matters–requires reporters who won’t back up, back down, back away or turn around when faced with efforts to intimidate them. It also requires owners and other bosses with guts, who stand by and for their reporters when the heat is on.
I still believe the pen is mightier than the sword. And in these conflicted and troubled times, we should reward the bravery of the men and women not afraid to ask the hard questions of everyone in power. Our nation’s future depends on it."
mongooz
.
@Tig
my fear is that the media is not asking hard enough questions. they seem to be more like they're egging trump on. they're not really doing good journalism.
some of the shit trump said during the campaign he should have been crucified by the media for. but that didn't happen.
i wish we had some hard nosed good old fashioned gum shoes out there. but instead it seems more like face time is more important. imo.
my fear is that the media is not asking hard enough questions. they seem to be more like they're egging trump on. they're not really doing good journalism.
some of the shit trump said during the campaign he should have been crucified by the media for. but that didn't happen.
i wish we had some hard nosed good old fashioned gum shoes out there. but instead it seems more like face time is more important. imo.
mongooz
.
i guess i meant more about tv coverage, than actual news paper reporting.
especially live reporting.
Johnny N.
Kick Henry Jackassowski
Yup.
The two sides are very different despite arguments to the contrary. One side generally does not fear differing opinions or religion, education, the standards of journalism, irrational and disproved/unfounded accusations, and much more. The other side got behind a candidate that blatantly used hate and fear in a manner not unlike Hitler. I don't think he's as bad as Hitler and I don't believe he wants to great "concentration" (i.e.: death) camps, but the are a stunning amount of his supporters completely bought that rhetoric.
To Johnny, I've never met anyone that has suggested, let alone said anything as ridiculous as all Republicans are racists, but I have met people that have expressed a notion not dissimilar to all Democrats and liberals being atheists and in some way evil. How does someone with a half a brain even get to that point? It shows extreme religious intolerance. Conversely intolerance of bigotry is hardly something to get angry about. People have their right to bigotry, prejudice, hatred, and even racism, but being disgusted by and disagreeing with that isn't an attack.
The left fringe is angry and dejected, but violence is not part of their agenda...most of them hate guns. The Right fringe includes groups like the KKK and other white supremacy organizations that generally claim to also be Christian. Holy fucking contradiction Batman! People that weren't even part of these organizations seemed ready to go after people at Trump's beck and call. This seems rather similar to the idea that the media was somehow against Trump when merely reporting on what he said and did, but the endless harping on the essentially non-issue of Clinton's emails made up something like 75% or more of the coverage on her. I know tons of folks have been seemingly brainwashed into the emails were and issue, but it's clear they weren't (regardless of whether or not everyone is happy about the fact).
Science is not some godless evil, but as mentioned many private institutions related to "conservative" principles act and teach as if it is. Conversely, there are no established atheist institutions in this country. Marist and Georgetown were founded by and still by Catholic brotherhoods (Jesuit and Franciscan monks) and they accept students from every religion (and provide services on campus to accommodate these various faiths) AND have massive science departments/programs. Religion is not rejection of science and science and a broad education are not a rejection of religion. Freedom of religion affords people the opportunity to not practice a religion. And atheists by the very definition of who they are cannot be agents of a non-existent embodiment of evil...one that is supposedly (based on some translations and adaptations of holy books) a fallen angel of a god in whom they also do not believe.
As someone raised to find my own path and not be forced to follow or believe anything that didn't ring true, I've come to be liberal. However, I was clearly directed in certain areas, in that I was not led to believe I was better than anyone NOR that anyone else was/is better than me. I've always been good with the first part, but struggle with the second all of the time. I was taught not to disparaged others based on any aspect of their being. As touched upon above, I was raised to find only one thing to be intolerable...intolerance. That said, I am under no presumption that this makes it the right way to have been raised, but I can't imagine raising children any differently. It is the way I'm raising my children. My wife and I try to expose to as many different experiences as possible: art, culture, food, etc. I would never tell them that they couldn't: play with certain kids (unless they're assholes...the other kids that is
This year we only had one candidate and party run on a message of exclusion, intolerance, fear, and hate. I need to believe everyone here was disgusted by this, but the election has show us that just under half of us are at least tacitly okay with this message. That fucking sucks.
Sorry for another rant. I'm slowly weaning myself from this thread. All the best.
Great post. I really appreciate your insight and agree with you for the most part. Where I specifically disagree, or maybe more accurately have a different perspective is your first couple of paragraphs. Based solely on my Facebook feed, I find that my more liberal "friends" are just as passionate about their intolerance of other views, including Christian views as my far right reaching "friends" are about their intolerance of other views, including atheism as an example. We could use any topic there.
And I find that using fear of those other beliefs is used by both as well. I would even suggest a comparison to Hitler is an example. And although some of those fringe groups certainly grabbed on to the train, they are the overwhelming minority of those who supported that party/candidate. And honestly, from where I sit it seemed like more people opposed the other candidate than supported one, from both sides. And I have seen some of those more liberal on my page infer that anyone that didn't vote their way was in fact a racist or are part of the KKK party. That said, I don't personally believe that all liberals feel that way nor do I think all conservatives think lefties are all Satan incarnate. All I am suggesting is that it is a difference of perspective. For example you don't see violence as part of the agenda of the far left but clearly there are many who have resorted to it.
I think regardless of how open minded we try to be our glasses tend to have at least some tint. Much of what you said in your post tells me liberal and conservative views should be able to coexist in our society but also that there are those who are always going to shout that their way is right. I stand by my initial point that until we can get enough people to let go of their political label we just aren't going to make progress solving our biggest issues.
Thanks again for the dialogue.
Tig
Fucktangular
Trump has provided fantastic ratings, which must be good enough for some of these TV news outlets. I've seen several excellent investigative pieces by the print media that the TV media has ignored or only briefly covered.
mongooz
.
yep.
if you are a reporter, and you've the the cameras rolling and questions are being asked and answered (or side stepped).....when someone, and trump in this case, says they're going to have a registry for muslims.....if you are worth two shits as a reporter, you're follow up question should NOT be "what department will be in charge of that?"
you're follow up question SHOULD be "what kind of fucking racist are you?". LOUD AND CLEAR.
that is the only way these wingnuts are going to understand that it's NOT ok.
that is NOT what the reporters did during the campaign. they just let it all roll on by. and THAT'S a big part of why we have the clusterfuck that we have.
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