OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Johnny N. said:
I'm a closer to the middle guy but I can't help but thinking when I read something like this that although the specific points may be different, it sounds exactly like the tactics of the far left. Both sides work very hard to drive a wedge making the assumption that their views are correct and everyone else's are wrong.

My personal view on it all is that the political element of it all, the "institution" if you will, has somehow gotten otherwise intelligent individuals and groups to buy in to their game. And now those same seeming intelligent people are having heated conversations and in some cases violent confrontations defending what they think is their belief system when in fact what they are defending is a political party who is profiting from their loyalty.

For example, I'm a fairly conservative southern guy who leans to the right if I were to apply a political label but fully believes our environment should be protected. I don't understand why we have to spend our time arguing over whether climate change exists but we should be able to understand that re-routing the natural flow of stormwater runoff to protect the sugar industry is destroying valuable and important ecosystems on the east and west coast of Florida, for example.

I wont list the many areas where my beliefs, and those of probably the majority of people cross party lines but the point is that the more we label ourselves with a D or an R, and the more we feel we need to retreat to the far end of the continuum, the more divided we will be. Not all R's are racists and not all D's are "amoral atheist agents of Satan." When my daughter grew up playing soccer I was always amazed at how normally rational people would turn into raving lunatics on a sideline. One of my best friends who was as kind and level as anyone I've met would lose his mind during a game. I would look at him like he was crazy and he would look enraged, then snap out of it an apologize. That is how I see politics now. We are getting sucked into the madness.

Look at us now. Everyone is arguing about the election results and how we are doomed because he won. And if it would have gone the other way we would have been talking about how doomed we are because she won, maybe without the safe spaces at colleges but you get the idea. The game has done it to us again. We can't stop pointing our fingers. The reality is, we are not going to revoke women's right to vote and deport everyone who doesn't look like me because he won. And if she would have won storm troopers would not have taken everyone's guns and we would not have become a Saudi state. We are going to be just fine.

But the problem is, through it all we have taken our eye off the ball. The system has us arguing like we are fighting about our sports teams. It's not rational. Personally, until we find a way to keep special interest from owning politicians we the people always lose. Maybe it is breaking the two party dominance. Maybe it is term limits. Maybe it is campaign finance reform. Or likely it is a combination of all that and more but we have to demand it. I'm guessing breaking down the parties is a good place to start. There is enough common ground that we should be able to figure this out. We all agree we shouldn't take each other's stuff and we shouldn't hurt each other for example. So lets talk about what we agree on so we can calm down enough to work on solutions to the things we don't. And I realize how naïve this all may sound and I realize that in this room I don't have a lot of folks sitting on my side of the isle but if not this than what? Do we keep arguing and making it all or nothing? Or do we understand there is enough pie to go around?

I think we also have to understand that waiting around for a President to save us is not only unrealistic but insane. And the farther we push away from each other on the political continuum, the more we will always get the worst they have to offer in candidates.
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How dare you come in here with a sensible post. :grin:

Seriously though, I totally agree with you. The all-or-nothing BS has to stop on both sides. I think your are right in your observation about that being how/why we ended up with the candidates we did.
 
mongooz said:
edit: btw....i was listening to the broadcast when he said it. so the story isn't some urban legend internet bullshit.
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I remember Nugent claiming that he "single handedly destroyed disco" in an interview. He said he tried to buy Muzak just to eliminate it in stores and elevators. He claimed all kinds of shit, some of it quite believable, like cutting down trees by shooting them with a hand gun.
 
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jp_nyc said:
That’s why the religious right have worked so hard to create this situation. Defunding schools, creating their own extreme-right colleges and universities, going to war with science, allying with right-wing-radio; it’s all been to drive a wedge between rural America and liberalism. This is cult manipulation on a grand scale, training people to shun the other entire half of the nation. And most pundits still don’t get it. They’re saying that liberals need to use a different tone with rural America, but a healthy portion of rural America has been raised to believe liberals are amoral atheist agents of Satan.
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I'm not sure I'd call it a "healthy" portion. :wink:
 
BlockInlay said:
Is this an acceptable form of public interaction for world leaders now? Random tweets and no press conferences... followed by rampant speculation by the media and readers who have no other alternative to parse what's said in a 140 character statement?

What the flying fuck.
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it must be acceptable. no one is questioning it, and it continues.
and the 'reality show' continues. wait til he's actually in office.
The Apprentice, 2.0
 
Mark Wein said:
Trump Says Any Conflicts Of Interest Were Priced Into Your Vote - The Huffington Post - US
https://apple.news/A6jZ0aMosRuupTHXi1fE86g
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Ah, Mr. Accountability never rests.
He continues to build his case against the "crooked media", our national enemy. We saw him exclude certain newspapers and networks from his rallies if he didn't like what they said about him. Will we see a tightening control over the media as he ascends to power, eroding the first amendment while boosting the second?


Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Prior to the election it was well known that I have interests in properties all over the world.Only the crooked media makes this a big deal!
8:14 PM - 21 Nov 2016
 
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Lerxst said:
When I was a kid, there was this farm down the road and the rumor was they had a UFO in the barn
So a bunch of us started doing surveillance on the barn and over a couple days we convinced ourselves that all the evidence was there. Eventually we infiltrated the property, eluded the highly trained guard dogs and elaborate security systesm & snuck into the barn.....only to find the usual shit a farmer keeps in a barn.
We wanted it to be true and we wanted an adventure so we saw connections and evidence where none existed.

Reading the "evidence" and blind speculation in that pizzagate sub, I see the same bunch of kids desperately trying to prove there is a UFO in a barn.
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One big difference: I doubt that you and your fellow kids relentlessly harassed the farm owners and threatened them and their families with torture and death over your harmless childish delusions.

Someone is going to end up very hurt or dead behind this bullshit.
 
tiger roach said:
At least he doesn't murder babies with a private email server!
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GDSmithTX said:
One big difference: I doubt that you and your fellow kids relentlessly harassed the farm owners and threatened them and their families with torture and death over your harmless childish delusions.

Someone is going to end up very hurt or dead behind this bullshit.
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To further illustrate my point, this exact statement could be coming from either side. I can't tell.
 
If they stop spending taxpayer dollars to continue demonizing Clinton, I'm fine with that.

But on to other campaign promises - let's get that damned wall built! Maybe my company can get a contract for some of the construction.
 
Johnny N. said:
To further illustrate my point, this exact statement could be coming from either side. I can't tell.
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Except that statement would be based upon rank speculation and toxic fiction designed entirely to harass people. Libel and slander, in other words.

I'm a person who generally strives to see both sides of an argument. "Both sides have their own merit" is not a virtuous attitude when one of the sides routinely and cynically creates and spreads lies to deceive and bamboozle their supporters.

Giving credence to the word of habitual liars doesn't make one "balanced," it makes one a gullible fool.
 
GDSmithTX said:
Except that statement would be based upon rank speculation and toxic fiction designed entirely to harass people. Libel and slander, in other words.

I'm a person who generally strives to see both sides of an argument. "Both sides have their own merit" is not a virtuous attitude when one of the sides routinely and cynically creates and spreads lies to deceive and bamboozle their supporters.

Giving credence to the word of habitual liars doesn't make one "balanced," it makes one a gullible fool.
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Seems to me that is exactly what both sides have been doing for a very long time. I would suggest giving credence to either "side" in this is foolish.
 
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