Kemper Gang?

[baimun]

@BlockInlay Make sure you have enough headroom on the amp, and the next time he turns up just turn the big volume knob at your feet and boost your stage level.

 

[Dexter Inferno]

Finally got around to doing a gig with the powered Kabinet that I bought almost a year ago
Did a show with the Queen tribute band last weekend. Sounded fecking incredible.

Previously I've usually gone direct and using in-ears, sometimes trying to make it work somewhat using a Headrush FRFR thingie on stage.
Sounds SOOOO much better with the Kabinet - and micing that up instead of going direct. The Kemper Kone thing is absolutely brilliant btw.
It just feels better than going direct imo, not to mention I can now get controlled feedback when I need it, which is just impossible without a good cabinet and healthy stage volume.

Not exactly news either but at last I've finally figured out how to get the best possible sound out of the Kemper.
Quality profiles is a great start, but the main thing I've learned is don't touch the pre "amp" gain or the eq section in the amp stack. Instead I'll use the an eq post amp if I do need to tweak the overall eq. It's easy to forget that the Kemper isn't a modeller and once you start tweaking stuff in the amp section it really goes to shit very quickly.
The only thing I might tweak now is the definition control, output eq, and maybe add a drive or two in front if I need more gain. Sounds a hell of a lot better.

Still going to be using regular amps though for the heavier stuff in my other bands. But I'm finally at a point where I'm reasonably happy using the Kemper live again for the the "lighter"/more fx heavy stuff in bands where I'm the only guitar player. That's good.

I'm definitely never going direct without any cabinet on stage again, that's for sure.

 

[baimun]

@Dexter Inferno I’m convinced there is something special about guitar frequencies being produced by 12” speaker…. So much more focused and articulate

 

[Dexter Inferno]

@Dexter Inferno I’m convinced there is something special about guitar frequencies being produced by 12” speaker…. So much more focused and articulate

Yep, and I think there's something about the limited frequency range of a guitar cabinet/speaker. Probably why I don't like the FRFR thing - too clean, too full range and lacking the upper mid bump that we actually need on stage for it to cut through.

 

[baimun]

Kemper to Mesa FX Return… Mic’d.

 

[BlockInlay]

What sort of EQ tweaks post-amp have you found helpful?

im currently experimenting with my kemper (run into a pedal baby power amp into a 2x12). I have my original set list performances and a copy of these with more midrange and less gain. The former sounds better when I’m just practicing by myself but the latter seems to work better in the band context.

 

[baimun]

What sort of EQ tweaks post-amp have you found helpful?...

In the master settings per amp, there is a clean sensitivity and distortion sensitivity..... these can be useful for even-ing out several different sounds for your board but don't over do it or you'll lose the dynamics of each amp. It's like adding salt... just a little pinch.

Also, by default the big knob on the Stage turns all of the various outputs up and down at the same time.... I decoupled the main out (the XLRs) from that, so I have to use the smaller knob on the panel for that... but otherwise the monitor out and other outs all go up and down with the big knob. That "monitor" out is what I run to the Mesa FX return for amplification. That way I can change my stage volume without affecting the XLR to the mixer.

 

[BlockInlay]

Quick question, was thinking about it driving to work so I haven’t looked into it yet.

can you have an expression pedal control amp volume rather than output volume?

 

[baimun]

Quick question, was thinking about it driving to work so I haven’t looked into it yet.

can you have an expression pedal control amp volume rather than output volume?

I don't think it would be an issue... unless it won't map from profile to profile. It might have to be something that's global... unless it could be mapped in each profile separately.

 

[Mark Wein]

Yep, and I think there's something about the limited frequency range of a guitar cabinet/speaker. Probably why I don't like the FRFR thing - too clean, too full range and lacking the upper mid bump that we actually need on stage for it to cut through.

I use an EX PXM 12mp speaker on stage. If I cut everything over 7-8k and below about 60hz it sounds pretty "real guitar speaker". I also end up dialing my sounds in "gig" levels though, too. They don't sound as cool at low volumes but onstage and with it going through the PA the Fractal FM9 makes me pretty happy. My Helix Stomp rig is set up for quiet gigs but with the same EQ considerations. I also don't use any crunch from the stomp other than a clean boost. I have a pedal or two in front of it but I don't use it for rock gigs so the crunchy tones are not as important. I have never used a profiler-type amp like the Kemper so I don't know if there is something specific about how they handle the amps that makes it worse for FRFR?

 

[Dexter Inferno]

I use an EX PXM 12mp speaker on stage. If I cut everything over 7-8k and below about 60hz it sounds pretty "real guitar speaker". I also end up dialing my sounds in "gig" levels though, too. They don't sound as cool at low volumes but onstage and with it going through the PA the Fractal FM9 makes me pretty happy. My Helix Stomp rig is set up for quiet gigs but with the same EQ considerations. I also don't use any crunch from the stomp other than a clean boost. I have a pedal or two in front of it but I don't use it for rock gigs so the crunchy tones are not as important. I have never used a profiler-type amp like the Kemper so I don't know if there is something specific about how they handle the amps that makes it worse for FRFR?

Yeah, think there's something about the EQ really. The Kemper profiles are pretty much recordings of particular setting on a guitar rig, and when played through an FRFR speaker you get some added frequencies that are not supposed to be there - as well as a lack of upper mids (which is crucial for cutting through a mix). I like using the Kemper and active cabinet if I'm the only guitar in a band, but I've noticed whenever I play along with someone using a tube amp I just don't cut through the mix and have to turn my rig up to excruciatingly loud just to be able to hear myself (quite like using some solid state amps a few years back). So for most gigs now I've gone back to using tube amps and regular cabs. There's also that elusive something missing with the modelling stuff that I can't quite figure out what is. Think it might be the unpredictability you get with tube amps. They behave weird in certain rooms, but when they sound great there's just something there you can't really get with the modelling stuff - controlled feedback being one of those things.

At home doing studio things though, I've pretty much gone over to using the Neural DSP stuff. Not sure what they do that others don't, but it seems to work.

 

[Dexter Inferno]

Btw I've now started seriously considering selling the Kemper and Kabinet. Basically using the rig only with one band now, and that's just to get the Brian May sound. It's barely been used in the studio for the last year now, and I've gone back to tube amps for most live gigs. Having a 2k rig that I barely use is beginning to annoy me a bit.

 

[Mark Wein]

Yeah, think there's something about the EQ really. The Kemper profiles are pretty much recordings of particular setting on a guitar rig, and when played through an FRFR speaker you get some added frequencies that are not supposed to be there - as well as a lack of upper mids (which is crucial for cutting through a mix). I like using the Kemper and active cabinet if I'm the only guitar in a band, but I've noticed whenever I play along with someone using a tube amp I just don't cut through the mix and have to turn my rig up to excruciatingly loud just to be able to hear myself (quite like using some solid state amps a few years back). So for most gigs now I've gone back to using tube amps and regular cabs. There's also that elusive something missing with the modelling stuff that I can't quite figure out what is. Think it might be the unpredictability you get with tube amps. They behave weird in certain rooms, but when they sound great there's just something there you can't really get with the modelling stuff - controlled feedback being one of those things.

At home doing studio things though, I've pretty much gone over to using the Neural DSP stuff. Not sure what they do that others don't, but it seems to work.

The thing that my students at the conservatory don't seem to understand is that when something sounds right in the mix it usually doesn't sound that great on its own. Especially onstage when you are part of a larger ensemble with multiple guitars, keys or backing tracks. I dialed in my main sounds in a rehearsal studio with our own PA and since that point I haven't had any problems making it work, regardless of the venue. I just know not to mess with it when I'm playing at home.

 

[baimun]

@Dexter Inferno @Mark Wein One of the things that I often praise about the Kemper is that it contains effects that I didn't even know I wanted until I'd be listening to a song that has a certain effect and I start scrolling through and... sure as shit... the Kemper already has it built in!! In the past week, I've discovered that the PITCH SHIFTER on the Kemper is better than any of the Octaver pedals that I currently own (So they're going on the 'Verb now).

My main 5 sounds across the front are 'Acoustic' Clean, Electric Mostly-Clean, 80's, Crunch, and Lead. The first two are Matchless set to different settings and having 5 different effects above with different "already on" settings when I bring up the patch. I put the One Octave down pitch shift on the super clean because Slot 1 starts with no delays or anything already on. Plus there's a compressor in that rig that works well with the pitch down.

Of course when you hit the button again and trigger the "Morph" it also simulates a heel-toe on an expression... so on the super clean, I made the "more" setting change the mix to bring in some of the direct sound. I added the pitch shift to the Lead patch as well... but that's more of a gritty octave and when I morph it drops to two octaves. FOOOOK does it sound cool when I hit a chord then morph it so the main chord holds while an octave behind does a trem dive to two octaves, or I've I'm hitting a big "BLAAMP!!..." chord at the end of a song and I turn that effect on, then un-morph the last chord and that octave effect pitches up in the background.

A month or so back I sat with my Rubber Chicken pedal in the loop of the Kemper and switched back and forth between it and the Touch-Wah until I got something very close so I have that effect available on my Electric Clean for Reggae solos and a variation on the Crunch to get more of a Frampton-y vowel wah. So there's a great reason to have a device like this with your Tube Amp, even if it's not the Kemper but you want to use it in 4-cable mode.

 

[Dexter Inferno]

Lol. Never saw this coming, but upcoming gig this weekend. And right now the Kemper is sitting in the fx loop of the Peavey 6505. More than anything because of the fx.
And it's sounding killer.

But...it's quite ridiculous having a 1500$ unit sitting in the fx loop for some modulation, delay and reverb.
Also dawned on me while testing the rig earlier tonight that I haven't used the Kemper at all since my last gig with that band in late July.

I'm now seriously considering letting the Kemper rig go and get something a bit more cost effective for the fx thing, as I've again returned to primarily being an amp player.
Not entirely sure yet. But there's just something about playing amps again that the modelling stuff just can't do. Moving air and the feeling you get from that is a big one.
It's all about what sort of projects you do and the sounds you need for that I guess.

Going to need a while to decide I suppose. the Kemper is great but I'm not entirely sure it fits my needs anymore.

 

[BlockInlay]

You can buy my pedal board that’s been collecting dust since I switched to my kemper for practice and gigs.

 

[BlockInlay]

Need some input/advice.

I have an Eventide H90 on loan to experiment with my kemper stage.

I have a kemper send going into the H90 and a pair of outputs from the H90 going into return 1&2 on the kemper. Using a stereo effects loop block (one pre amp and one post amp). Everything seems to sound right but I’m not 100% certain I have this hooked up correctly. Anyone?

Another question I have… when running two algos simultaneously on the H90, would it be possible to split their outputs? For example:

If I’m using a gain/distortion algo and a funky reverb/delay algo, can I send one to an effects loop pre amp and the other to an effects loop post amp? Will the H90 do that? Will the kemper accommodate two loops?

 

[baimun]

i can't remember if the FX loop is just preset, or if you have to assign it to an effects block... I think there is already one prior to the Amp Output block.

Because I wanted my Looper to be after all of that stuff, I edited the spots for the last one to be the effects loop and I just leave it always on with every patch. I had to then reassign everything else to the next spot over (Verbs, Cab, etc).

I believe that since the loop is assignable, you could treat the H90 like two mono effects and assign one early and one late, but I don't know how easily (or if at all) it could switch back and forth.

 

[Dexter Inferno]

Just listed my Kemper rig for sale.

It's great, but I've gone back to using amps and pedals for live gigs - as none of my bandmates have gone digital, and that's a big one really.
And I have to say the Kemper suffers from the same thing that pretty much all modellers do. It doesn't sound or feel right for players like me who uses the volume knob a lot to vary gain on a fairly high gain profile. That and it refused to play nicely with the germanium treble booster I have which is a crucial part of the Queen thing I do in one of my bands. Some sort of buffer in there I guess, which the germanium pedals hate. I can't use my wireless with that band for the same reason. Instant unbelievably loud hum.

Would have loved to keep it, but I just don't have the budget for that. And there's just something about a Marshall cab moving air that every digital product just can't reproduce.

Weird, I've tried the digital thing numerous times (especially with a bunch of Boss stuff). I eventually just keep coming back to what feels good for me. YMMV obviously.

 

[baimun]

That... and it refused to play nicely with the germanium treble booster I have which is a crucial part of the Queen thing I do in one of my bands...

I'm anxiously waiting for my Germanium Tumnus to arrive from Wampler.....



.... don't ruin this for me.