OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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i'm sure there were a lot of intelligent, well meaning germans back then that got 'sucked' into the hype and then in the 50's looked back and said "what the fuck did we do?!!?"

which is likely why you can't even bring the subject up in germany today.

Beg to differ, you catch that stuff ad nauseam over here. In a way it's good to learn from the past and not let it be forgotten, on the other you start breeding the " well, if I'm already guilty in your eyes I may as well be REALLY guilty" mentality.
 
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I've always felt that if you're going to be in charge of the worlds largest military machine that you should have spent some time in personally. And the time that you spent getting deferments and playing soldier in high school ROTC classes doesn't count. It seems like the guys who want to throw soldiers into the meat grinder the quickest are the ones who never had the possibility of being at the pointy end of the stick themselves.
 
I've always felt that if you're going to be in charge of the worlds largest military machine that you should have spent some time in personally. And the time that you spent getting deferments and playing soldier in high school ROTC classes doesn't count. It seems like the guys who want to throw soldiers into the meat grinder the quickest are the ones who never had the possibility of being at the pointy end of the stick themselves.

that is ABSOLUTELY correct. :thu:
 
I've always felt that if you're going to be in charge of the worlds largest military machine that you should have spent some time in personally. And the time that you spent getting deferments and playing soldier in high school ROTC classes doesn't count. It seems like the guys who want to throw soldiers into the meat grinder the quickest are the ones who never had the possibility of being at the pointy end of the stick themselves.

Those whom have never served and end up elected to public office tend to favor expanded military action while contracting benefits for veterans. Those who have served tend to be far less likely to support conflict while giving veterans' issues more than just lip service. Not to get too partisan, but I think you can see where Im going with this.
 
I've always felt that if you're going to be in charge of the worlds largest military machine that you should have spent some time in personally. And the time that you spent getting deferments and playing soldier in high school ROTC classes doesn't count. It seems like the guys who want to throw soldiers into the meat grinder the quickest are the ones who never had the possibility of being at the pointy end of the stick themselves.

That sounds good in theory, but the president does way more than be in charge of the military. It also significantly limits the presidential pool. As long as they pick a military advisor with military experience and actually listen to the advisor, I am fine.
 
This is untrue. Germany has - to their massive credit - been very open and unflinchingly honest about all of it for a long time now. It isn't glossed over. You go to Berlin, there are reminders virtually everywhere.

Meanwhile, statues of Confederate generals abide.

Please don't compare Confederate generals to Nazis.
 
That sounds good in theory, but the president does way more than be in charge of the military. It also significantly limits the presidential pool. As long as they pick a military advisor with military experience and actually listen to the advisor, I am fine.
Well, thats the key. Do you think someone like Trump or Ted Cruz could do that though? I get the feeling Hillary would have no problem sending the kids out either but she has actual international relations experience at least.
 
Well, thats the key. Do you think someone like Trump or Ted Cruz could do that though? I get the feeling Hillary would have no problem sending the kids out either but she has actual international relations experience at least.

That's why I support Bernie :embarrassed:
 
Please don't compare Confederate generals to Nazis.

Ok, fine.

(Despite the fact that they were warring to maintain a slave trade that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of Africans, and the captivity, abuse, and rape of millions more)

But even if they are not comparable, it is still disgraceful for them to given civic honours with statues, buildings, street names, etc.
 
i'm sure there were a lot of intelligent, well meaning germans back then that got 'sucked' into the hype and then in the 50's looked back and said "what the fuck did we do?!!?"

which is likely why you can't even bring the subject up in germany today.
I might be "that guy" that did bring it up after a couple beers or something. I used to pester my Dad (a judge and Navy man and generally a really good, smart man) about his blind spot on Japanese internment. He used to acknowledge it was wrong, but kept saying "we were at war" and "you had to be there to understand the fear of invasion" and things like that. He did live through brown outs in Port Orchard, across from Bremerton Naval Shipyard, as high school kid, and lots of false alarms regarding the japanese coming for the west coast. But to me, it was always a blind spot he had in an otherwise very distinguished life and career. I guess fear will do that to you. And the propaganda machine back then was selling it. And though it may not be the same style of drawings of slant eyed yellow skinned caricatures, the same thing is being sold now. Leads to the stuff Mark is pointing out.

Here in Idaho, one of the internment camps is still pretty much intact and available for visits. My kid has gone there with his school. I have taught skiing with Rod Tatsuno, a really nice guy who was born in an American run prison camp, and who was honored by being a torch carrier for the SLC Olympics. His kid Chris is an amazing freeskier and all around good dude. Rod has an amazing positive attitude and does not complain. But he still carries the wounds from the way his family was treated. I read stories like Mark's, and see the rhetoric of labelling, prejudice and hatred, and it gives me great concern. I don't really like Hillary all that much, and don't like her apparent lack of personality and leadership in the face of this media monster running on the other side. But I will support her and vote for her if she is nominated.

Go Hillary, and step it up, will ya!?
 
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This is untrue. Germany has - to their massive credit - been very open and unflinchingly honest about all of it for a long time now. It isn't glossed over. You go to Berlin, there are reminders virtually everywhere.

Meanwhile, statues of Confederate generals abide.

That is good to know.
 
I've always felt that if you're going to be in charge of the worlds largest military machine that you should have spent some time in personally. And the time that you spent getting deferments and playing soldier in high school ROTC classes doesn't count. It seems like the guys who want to throw soldiers into the meat grinder the quickest are the ones who never had the possibility of being at the pointy end of the stick themselves.
It ain't me. I ain't no senator's son.
 
Not a Hillary fan, but I must admit. That foreign policy speech was like watching an episode of Bully Beatdown.
 
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