Billy Corgan on the implosion of the pumpkins and the record industry

I didn't read the article, but I've been following Corgan for like 25 years? All of the Pumpkins problems fall squarely on the fact that Corgan is a raging douche. Every. Single. One.
 
I’m pretty sure Billy being a douche isn’t what caused Jimmy, D’arcy, and Jonathan to indulge in hard drugs. I can see Billy driving people to drink, but not to smack and meth.
 
That article is a couple years old. And Corgan is almost always doing some level of kayfabe in the press.

Plus most Gen Xers don’t grok the SJW phenomenon. It’s a real ideological generational divide between millennials and younger folks who want safe spaces and inclusion vs Boomer and Gen X weirdos who believe pretty fervently in free speech and coexistence within the “marketplace of ideas” even if that enables buffoons like Jones.

Billy Corgan is a toolbox. That’s probably part of where his art comes from. Most pop musicians of any note are either known terrible people or secretly terrible people.

I expect neither decency nor measured social analysis from Billy Corgan. I expect solid alt-pop confections and fuzzy angst bombs.

Alex Jones is a dummy, but he’s an entertaining gonzo performer. You can see why he appeals to people. You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to a few episodes to get the scope and breadth of it. It’s like a concentrated shot of every kind of paranoid, contrary Gen X preoccupation there ever was or will be.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Alex Jones is a dummy, but he’s an entertaining gonzo performer. You can see why he appeals to people. You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to a few episodes to get the scope and breadth of it. It’s like a concentrated shot of every kind of paranoid, contrary Gen X preoccupation there ever was or will be.
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I have Gen Xers to ignore for that. Why do I need another one?
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
I have Gen Xers to ignore for that. Why do I need another one?
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It’s worth being aware of the discourse. He’s a popular/prominent voice. He’s got the president’s ear and is pals with some of the president’s team. It’s worth getting a feel for it.
 
Peen Simmons said:
It’s worth being aware of the discourse. He’s a popular/prominent voice. He’s got the president’s ear and is pals with some of the president’s team. It’s worth getting a feel for it.
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I get that, I just don't need it. I'd rather read Breitbart. If only so I can read the hysterical ranting instead of listening to it.
 
Peen Simmons said:
That article is a couple years old. And Corgan is almost always doing some level of kayfabe in the press.

Plus most Gen Xers don’t grok the SJW phenomenon. It’s a real ideological generational divide between millennials and younger folks who want safe spaces and inclusion vs Boomer and Gen X weirdos who believe pretty fervently in free speech and coexistence within the “marketplace of ideas” even if that enables buffoons like Jones.

Billy Corgan is a toolbox. That’s probably part of where his art comes from. Most pop musicians of any note are either known terrible people or secretly terrible people.

I expect neither decency nor measured social analysis from Billy Corgan. I expect solid alt-pop confections and fuzzy angst bombs.

Alex Jones is a dummy, but he’s an entertaining gonzo performer. You can see why he appeals to people. You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to a few episodes to get the scope and breadth of it. It’s like a concentrated shot of every kind of paranoid, contrary Gen X preoccupation there ever was or will be.
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I think you're overthinking it. The divide is not generational, it's between people who go to college and those who don't
 
rickenvox said:
I think you're overthinking it. The divide is not generational, it's between people who go to college and those who don't
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No. I, in a trick of chronology, straddle the millennial/Xer divide. I’m pretty SJW-aligned despite my formative Xer identification. Partly because I’ve spent a lot of time in the gender theory trenches and partly because I’m not personally inclined to be an ideological hardass. There’s plenty of college educated Xers who simply DO NOT GET the SJW thing...identity politics, gender business, critical race theory, etc. I know because I’m friends with folks on both side of the divide.

And I will say that the willingness of college-age SJW types to embrace well-meaning censorship is weird and offputting.
 
jp_nyc said:
I’m pretty sure Billy being a douche isn’t what caused Jimmy, D’arcy, and Jonathan to indulge in hard drugs. I can see Billy driving people to drink, but not to smack and meth.
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To expound on what I was saying (drug addiction aside), in Corgan's eyes he IS the smashing pumpkins. He wouldn't even let Iha and D'arcy record on albums. All the people he plays with are just replaceable pawns.
 
Alex W said:
To expound on what I was saying (drug addiction aside), in Corgan's eyes he IS the smashing pumpkins. He wouldn't even let Iha and D'arcy record on albums. All the people he plays with are just replaceable pawns.
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Iha and D’arcy played on MCIS, and Iha’s weird synthy textures are all over Adore and Machina.

Billy also is pretty clear about JC not being replaceable. Chamberlin is the musical MVP of the Pumpkins.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Iha and D’arcy played on MCIS, and Iha’s weird synthy textures are all over Adore and Machina.

Billy also is pretty clear about JC not being replaceable. Chamberlin is the musical MVP of the Pumpkins.
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I was gonna put I the caveat about Chamberlain but I didn't know if anyone cared enough about the Pumpkins or Chamberlain to know.

Iirc he cut out Iha and D'arcy on Siamese Dream and just did everything but drums himself. I thought he redid parts on mcis but I could be mistaken.

I love gish, sd, and mcis. After that they start unraveling musically for me, and I started becoming aware of Corgan as a person and not just as a musician.
 
Alex W said:
Iirc he cut out Iha and D'arcy on Siamese Dream and just did everything but drums himself. I thought he redid parts on mcis but I could be mistaken.
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Supposedly he cut them out because they couldn’t play well enough to get good takes. Studio time isn’t free.
 
MCIS is the only album where they’re all playing as a band...Iha and Corgan even split solo duties for the most part.
 
Alex W said:
To expound on what I was saying (drug addiction aside), in Corgan's eyes he IS the smashing pumpkins. He wouldn't even let Iha and D'arcy record on albums. All the people he plays with are just replaceable pawns.
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mongo-only-pawn-in-game-of-life-8617167.png


BTW - after reading this thread, and vaguely remembering my kids liked the Pumpkins back in the day I took out "Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" and discovered that (to me), other than the "hits" (i.e. Bullet with Butterfly Wings, Tonight Tonight, and 1976) it sucked - at least to me. Also, his voice is amazingly analogous to fingernails on a blackboard...
 
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bsman said:
mongo-only-pawn-in-game-of-life-8617167.png


BTW - after reading this thread, and vaguely remembering my kids liked the Pumpkins back in the day I took out "Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" and discovered that (to me), other than the "hits" (i.e. Bullet with Butterfly Wings, Tonight Tonight, and 1976) it sucked - at least to me. Also, his voice is amazingly analogous to fingernails on a blackboard...
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To each his own, but 1979 is probably one of my top 5 favorite songs of all time.

Siamese Dream is pretty much the perfect album and has the best fuzz tone I've ever heard.
 
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