I know, but the fact that you slipped up made your post sound like it was talking in circles, which I found a bit funny.
i lold.
This is glorious music. You may disagree, but be prepared to face my wrath.
- Thread starter Flamencology
- Start date
i lold.
Aahzz
Habanero Evangelist
That was scary, because it was easier to listen to than the originally posted video. I'd love to see the reaction if that got posted at a forum full of free jazz lovers that didn't know what it was....
eloydrummerboy
& the Flaming Monkeys
I was making no dichotomy. As I mentioned earlier, there are musicians who can mix complicated techniques and still make music that is widely agreed upon to be 'pleasant'. In this thread however, in the case of Ornette the prevalent opinion seems to be a handful who "Get it and like it for what it is" and a majority who "Can't be bothered with that mess." So in my opinion Ornette himself is not in this middle ground. That's why it wasn't mentioned.
The Parthenon was build with each pillar and column at slight variances from perfect right angles so that from a distance, due to human perception and tricks of the eye, it would appear perfect. This is a perfect example of art meets science and theory. On the other hand, if an architect wanted to build me a house using 85 degree angles because right angles are boring and overdone and this would look 'new' and 'creative' and 'artistic' I'd fire him on the spot. That's simply complication for the sake of complication and I have very little use for things of that nature.
Rhyme and Reason doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Just because you can explain what an artist is doing and why they're doing it doesn't make it good art. With music theory I can throw my hands down on any random 5-7 notes and say what chord it is. Then I can lower one note and talk about diminishing it, or move the whole down chromatically or within some scale. Being able to explain it systematically doesn't make that chord or chord progression sound good or work in a song. Simple as that. A complicated yet shitty sounding chord is still a shitty sounding chord.
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
Fuck whether or not it's good, I'm talking about shit like this:
"I did click on it. Sounded like complete rubbish. Reminded me of highschool band when everybody would be warming up doing scales and stuff just to get their instruments warmed up...everybody doing something completely unrelated and non-musical."
Which is simply ignorance, IMHO, and more or less analogous to someone reading or listening to a foreign language and assuming that it's meaningless; there is an insane level of interplay in that clip, and it is 100% blindingly obvious to me that each musician is listening to each of the others, that each is responding to the other, and that each musician is doing something that "relates" to a greater whole. I mean, there's a deep blues influence, very riff-based, lots of theme and variations kind of play.
Or this:
"Didn't care for it. Maybe if there was a bit more melody to it.... "
I mean, it's as melodic as music gets - pretty much every pop song ever is based on a harmonic progress in a set rhythm; this piece is based on melody, and everything else is a function thereof.
I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I'm honestly annoyed when people pull the "Emperor's New Clothes" analogy out of a hat every time they encounter something that they don't understand, or find confusing. I don't know how anyone else feels, but to me, it requires a much greater ego to make that kind of assumption than it does to think it through for a moment, consider the fact that Ornette Coleman has been making records for 50+ years, has been extremely significant in every single decade of that career, has made music that endures, is a living legend who is revered my several generations of listeners and several generations of musicians who have more talent than any of us... and to admit that there might be something to it.
Help!I'maRock!
Mediocringly Derivative
Fuck whether or not it's good, I'm talking about shit like this:
"I did click on it. Sounded like complete rubbish. Reminded me of highschool band when everybody would be warming up doing scales and stuff just to get their instruments warmed up...everybody doing something completely unrelated and non-musical."
Which is simply ignorance, IMHO, and more or less analogous to someone reading or listening to a foreign language and assuming that it's meaningless; there is an insane level of interplay in that clip, and it is 100% blindingly obvious to me that each musician is listening to each of the others, that each is responding to the other, and that each musician is doing something that "relates" to a greater whole. I mean, there's a deep blues influence, very riff-based, lots of theme and variations kind of play.
Or this:
"Didn't care for it. Maybe if there was a bit more melody to it.... "
I mean, it's as melodic as music gets - pretty much every pop song ever is based on a harmonic progress in a set rhythm; this piece is based on melody, and everything else is a function thereof.
I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I'm honestly annoyed when people pull the "Emperor's New Clothes" analogy out of a hat every time they encounter something that they don't understand, or find confusing. I don't know how anyone else feels, but to me, it requires a much greater ego to make that kind of assumption than it does to think it through for a moment, consider the fact that Ornette Coleman has been making records for 50+ years, has been extremely significant in every single decade of that career, has made music that endures, is a living legend who is revered my several generations of listeners and several generations of musicians who have more talent than any of us... and to admit that there might be something to it.
yeah, but, i mean Twisted Sister. dude.
I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I'm honestly annoyed when people pull the "Emperor's New Clothes" analogy out of a hat every time they encounter something that they don't understand, or find confusing. I don't know how anyone else feels, but to me, it requires a much greater ego to make that kind of assumption than it does to think it through for a moment, consider the fact that Ornette Coleman has been making records for 50+ years, has been extremely significant in every single decade of that career, has made music that endures, is a living legend who is revered my several generations of listeners and several generations of musicians who have more talent than any of us... and to admit that there might be something to it.
Yeah, that was me..albeit tongue in cheek.
..I have no problem understanding the piece (having listened a couple more times)..it's certainly not confusing or weird to me at all. I just don't enjoy it very much ..it either doesn't speak to me, or I'm not tuned in to listen to whatever it's trying to tell me. At a "just listen to it" level..it's not interesting enough to pull me in. I don't doubt there's "something to it"..maybe just not what I want 
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
Yeah, that was me..albeit tongue in cheek.
It wasn't just you, and you weren't who I had in mind, although you were certainly the first to invoke that story by name.
Prages
User Error
If you're referring to me, I listened once all the way through and found it insufferable. Why would I waste any more of my life trying to figure out the mechanics of the piece when listening to it makes me cringe?
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
There's a big difference between "it's not for me, probably never will be", and your actual comments in this thread, which more or less imply that you neither respect the musicians nor the listeners.
Prages
User Error
There's a big difference between "it's not for me, probably never will be", and your actual comments in this thread, which more or less imply that you neither respect the musicians nor the listeners.
There's also a big difference between "It's not for me" and "I find it completely unlistenable" which I do.
Most jazz is not for me. This doesn't even sound like music to me.
Yeah, it's an opinion. It's an internet forum. That's what happens.
Kerouac
weird musical dildo
I took jazz lessons for 9 months and it made me cringe. It also made me a better musician.
eloydrummerboy
& the Flaming Monkeys
Now we've come full circle. This explains a lot and I can now finally understand your stance on, and taste in, music.
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
Now we've come full circle. This explains a lot and I can now finally understand your stance on, and taste in, music.
I said that because it's really a non-discussion, IMHO; I believe that the music in the OP is really truly "great", I don't feel that anyone here is capable of dissuading me of that, and I don't feel capable of persuading Prages or 'mo or whoever else that they're missing out on something incredibly special. I could appeal to authority and take comfort in having a laundry list of world-class musicians on my side, but that would just be boring, and wouldn't change anyone's mind.
However, if someone wants to assert that this music is in any way random, that it doesn't require serious skill, that its practitioners cannot play their instruments, etc., they're objectively wrong, and it's a listening problem, and that's all there is to it. If they can see all of that (or at least admit that the possibility that they don't have the musical literacy to do so) and still don't like it... well, I still feel they're missing out, but there are plenty of brilliant musicians whose music I really don't love. Mozart, Chopin, Puccini, etc., for example.
aliensporebomb
Fretted instrument fan
Weird. I click on the link in the first page of this thread and it claims I can't play it due to copyright infringement. Hey, if I could play sax like that guy I'd be going places man.
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
eloydrummerboy
& the Flaming Monkeys
I said that because it's really a non-discussion, IMHO; I believe that the music in the OP is really truly "great", I don't feel that anyone here is capable of dissuading me of that, and I don't feel capable of persuading Prages or 'mo or whoever else that they're missing out on something incredibly special. I could appeal to authority and take comfort in having a laundry list of world-class musicians on my side, but that would just be boring, and wouldn't change anyone's mind.
However, if someone wants to assert that this music is in any way random, that it doesn't require serious skill, that its practitioners cannot play their instruments, etc., they're objectively wrong, and it's a listening problem, and that's all there is to it. If they can see all of that (or at least admit that the possibility that they don't have the musical literacy to do so) and still don't like it... well, I still feel they're missing out, but there are plenty of brilliant musicians whose music I really don't love. Mozart, Chopin, Puccini, etc., for example.
Then I think we're pretty much in agreement. And I think most comments to the tune of "This sucks" were as much in jest as your kinky BDSM art collection posts.
But, in the end, any attempts at dissuasion or persuasion are pretty much pointless. But it's also kinda fun, which is for the most part why we're all here and why we continue to return. That and pictures of food.
Help!I'maRock!
Mediocringly Derivative
Peeker
jerkass
mock me all ya like, but I'm right.
