WTF: The Day the Music Burned.

Wow. I realize that I may be in the minority here, but did y'all read the entire article? There are so many missing masters. I learned a lot about masters vs. newer ways of saving music. I didn't see it in the article, but I think I've read that Prince saved all of his masters & did most of his recordings in that fortress that he built. There was a quote in the article from him resembling that if you don't own your masters, they own you.

It's embarrassing to admit, but I can't read. I usually have the Walmart food delivery people come into my study (ironic) and read me the messages on this forum. And then I dictate my witty replies. Only problem is when someone posts a link to a long article and the Walmart people don't want to read it to me. So yes, you're probably in the minority of people on this forum that read long articles or even know how to read at all. You are special.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It's embarrassing to admit, but I can't read. I usually have the Walmart food delivery people come into my study (ironic) and read me the messages on this forum. And then I dictate my witty replies. Only problem is when someone posts a link to a long article and the Walmart people don't want to read it to me. So yes, you're probably in the minority of people on this forum that read long articles or even know how to read at all. You are special.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For some strange reason, I actually like you!
 
For some strange reason, I actually like you!

I enjoy long walks on the beach at sunset and often like just curling up with a good book instead of going out. Most of all I really value fidelity.




hi-fidelity that is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I won't read the article. I refuse to support that shitty rag. If took eleven years for the lost to come to light, it's probably not that big of a deal. Seems like there wasn't;t much demand there.

Honestly, the most interesting thing to me was the company pretty much covered up the loss for years. That's why it took so long for it to come to light.

Undisclosed loss of audio recordings -- for a company whose whole business is audio recordings -- seems like the sort of thing that might upset shareholders... and their lawyers... and perhaps the SEC.
 
This is a colossal loss. I did read the article, and I also have worked with master tapes with major labels as well as smaller (and micro ... cough ....) labels. I've also worked with artists regarding master tapes.

Trying to split this apart, here's what initially hit me.

Loss For the Public

* The ability to hear things remastered. If you've never been a mastering session, or better still, a re-mastering session, it can be hard to understand how a final mix from, say, 1985 (or '74, or '58) can be improved upon. But often it can. Technology has changed dramatically over the last several decades, and it can really matter. I fear my own navel-gazing on this; suffice to say that the reason so many sound pros are despondent about this coming out is not because they are sentimental, talentless fools. I'm nobody's idea of an engineer, and even as the 'talent exploiter,' when I sat in on re-masters it was ear-opening.

Now that's gone for hundreds of thousands of beloved recordings.

* (necessary dork part) Just because "tape eventually disintegrates," it does NOT follow that the original recordings are analogous to manuscripts. Sonic detail degrades with transfers, as well as time, and master tapes are the best record of the artistic endeavor. And yes, you can transfer / preserve them in ways that are better vs. worse. If one must make an analogy, master tapes vs. digitized materials (e.g., a CD) is like comparing an original painting to a reprinted poster. Remixing and remastering albums really isn't a marketing ploy, although I'm quite aware of the cynicism usually involved in the marketing.

Also: there's a shortage of tape. No, really. People have ... kind of stopped making it, and I'm concerned that reduces the odds of say, Sony Music (cough) doing the right thing and creating a separate, well protected first-gen archive of their masters.

* Per most peoples' estimates, most recorded music in the world has not been digitized. No, not talking about my priceless works of home twiddling. I mean the sessions from artists that many find valuable. According to the article, only 18% of the music lost in the fire had been digitally transferred. You wonder what may or may not have been there. Again, this is not the San Bernardino Community College archive, this is UMG's archive.

Loss For the Artists

* I know a lot of artists and producers who consider the master tapes of their work to be like a part of them. It's the result of their effort. Some of the weirdest, most emotional conflicts I've seen have been about simple possession of master tapes. Not possession of copyright, just possession of the tapes. I know a producer who is very well known, who always abides utterly and complete by his contracts. Except for one thing: he keeps the masters of Every. Session. He 'submits the masters' to the label, but they are all first-gen copies (and painfully good, in that regard, sometimes done with a second tape machine at large-desk studios). I also know how the late Scott Miller of Game Theory / Loud Family was deeply hurt by not having access to the master tapes for his masterpiece double LP, Lolita Nation.

He who controls the spice controls the universe, and master tapes are the spice of recorded music.

* A wish to revisit the material later. I know so many artists who later wanted to go back and take a different approach to their material - remix, remaster, etc. Bob Ludwig and John Golden (to name two guys famous for mastering and for whom I have huge respect) are not who they are because what they do doesn't matter. They shape sound. Well, sometimes, artists don't like what happened with their stuff. And now, there's not a thing they can do about it.

Loss For Music Historians

* The Robert Johnson mention is spot on. He is (rightly) considered a great artist, but his material was not well preserved. Worse, it is woefully small as a representative sample of his abilities. We can blame his lifestyle and the era, but it's hard to say one wouldn't like to maybe hear some mid-period Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers out-takes when you can't hear them at all any more.

* And drilling down further, there are - pardon, were - so many artists represented in that archive who can now never be more fully investigated and appreciated.


It's hardly surprising that this was ... hidden / just coming out now. Inevitably the music business's dirty laundry only gets aired when there's litigation.
 
the analogy here is if some handwritten copy of Moby Dick had been burned up in the fire of some archives library, while several thousand copies existing around the country. It's growth in popularity would not have been affected in the least.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s more like losing an original manuscript or an important editing/working copy. Think about the quarto/folio version kerfuffles re: Willie Shakes scholarship.

Loss of masters means loss of the basic elements of beloved recordings. Versions and commercial product are still available, but something of the actual source is gone—which makes remastering and future preservation/restoration programs less likely/possible.
 
It’s more like losing an original manuscript or an important editing/working copy. Think about the quarto/folio version kerfuffles re: Willie Shakes scholarship.

Loss of masters means loss of the basic elements of beloved recordings. Versions and commercial product are still available, but something of the actual source is gone—which makes remastering and future preservation/restoration programs less likely/possible.

I don't disagree with any of that. On a personal level, when the 4th remastered version of Abbey Road comes out I will not be lined up to buy it. When the Hendrix remasters came out that were controlled by the Hendrix family, they were awful. You can also screw things up by remastering. And then there is the connection to the version you first heard, like Let It Be, and then the artist(s) suddenly want to rewrite history and take out the strings or use an inferior Harrison solo. Fripp remastered and screwed up a couple classic King Crimson albums. Todd Rundgren shared in an interview (that someone posted in this forum years ago) that Andy Partridge left to his own devices would have totally screwed up XTC's Skylarking by throwing on endless layers. When artists who have no producing skills get to go back and rework classic albums without the original producer and just a paid hack, it often results in destroying the work of art. And lastly, the consumers for remastered albums is just a sausage fest of geeky social misfits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Personal levels are meaningful - on a personal level. I also was present for many, many conversations that could be summed up by Morrissey's pithy lyric "Repackage, re-release it, re-evaluate the song ... double sleeve and a tacky badge ...."

But on a historical level, it is a real physical loss. When you look at the physical process of recording, each and every magnetized molecule matters -- you may not feel a deep need to hear every whisper of side 2 of Abbey Road, but I might. And vice versa.

There's so much more, too: think of all of the un-released material. Has no one here ever heard 'extra material' later that they thought was brilliant? One band I worked with recorded all of about 20 songs in larger studios. I released 17 of them; of the remaining, I think two of them are incredible but they just didn't think one 'fit' the album (I accepted this, shows you how young and dumb I was) and they didn't finish the other one. But I still listen to it every few years, and it's damn good.

Think about that ratio spread over the list of artists in that article, or just go look at UMG's artist stable.

Thats' not "better sound on the hi hats," it's songs, period.

I have no idea how things work these days, but if a person likes music made between 1970-1995, I think they'd be shocked just how much great stuff sits in vaults.
 
Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums by one of the greatest rock/pop songwriters ever. There are 4 songs I like off that album. That's pretty representative of most rock/pop albums. The bands that made albums with almost no filler I can probably count on one hand and why people talk endlessly about the Beatles. Pretty rare. So if that's the case for most released material, what's going to shock us in previously unreleased material that didn't make the cut for any official albums? One case in rock history was George Harrison All Things Must Pass. Wilson's Smile was overhyped. I have thousands of LPs and CDs. I would rather look forward for new things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Pet Sounds is one of the greatest albums by one of the greatest rock/pop songwriters ever. There are 4 songs I like off that album. That's pretty representative of most rock/pop albums. The bands that made albums with almost no filler I can probably count on one hand and why people talk endlessly about the Beatles. Pretty rare. So if that's the case for most released material, what's going to shock us in previously unreleased material that didn't make the cut for any official albums? One case in rock history was George Harrison All Things Must Pass. Wilson's Smile was overhyped. I have thousands of LPs and CDs. I would rather look forward for new things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not going to argue taste, but you do see that what you wrote means you are not talking about the same subject, right?

We are talking about history, curation and preservation. You are talking about "what I like."
 
I'm not going to argue taste, but you do see that what you wrote means you are not talking about the same subject, right?

We are talking about history, curation and preservation. You are talking about "what I like."

It's not fine art, anymore than Jordache jeans or outtakes from Laugh-in or Hee-haw are. And yes, I'm not directly commenting on your post, rather making more general remarks about the value of all this. Master tapes are just a step in a process that puts a cassette tape, album, or CD into my hands as a consumer. A means to an end, not the end itself. I don't want to deify these things. Everyone is free to do that if they wish. The value of this so called art was realized when I bought the cd, more specifically when I listen to it. When I was a kid I used to listen to music on a transistor radio. I was perfectly happy. I even had a hand me down reel to reel from my dad and often used a microphone to record radio broadcasts from my transistor radio onto tape. And I enjoyed music then probably more than at any other time in my life (10 years old). Don't think remasters would have sounded any different with that set up (of course The Beatles were still using 4 track machines back then, tracks were already bounced so many times you couldn't isolate many things).

Master tapes of well known and documented artists burning up is a first world problem.

Sheet music was the medium for distributing popular music in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Playing music with your family on the parlor piano was a great bonding experience. Probably better for a marriage than making your spouses' eyes roll back in her head talking about technical trivia related to recordings. Women don't dig that as much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back to the OP. It's a tremendous loss of original art. It has everything to do with American history & our love of music & how it has evolved.
 
It's not fine art, anymore than Jordache jeans or outtakes from Laugh-in or Hee-haw are. And yes, I'm not directly commenting on your post, rather making more general remarks about the value of all this. Master tapes are just a step in a process that puts a cassette tape, album, or CD into my hands as a consumer. A means to an end, not the end itself. I don't want to deify these things. Everyone is free to do that if they wish. The value of this so called art was realized when I bought the cd, more specifically when I listen to it. When I was a kid I used to listen to music on a transistor radio. I was perfectly happy. I even had a hand me down reel to reel from my dad and often used a microphone to record radio broadcasts from my transistor radio onto tape. And I enjoyed music then probably more than at any other time in my life (10 years old). Don't think remasters would have sounded any different with that set up (of course The Beatles were still using 4 track machines back then, tracks were already bounced so many times you couldn't isolate many things).

Master tapes of well known and documented artists burning up is a first world problem.

Sheet music was the medium for distributing popular music in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Playing music with your family on the parlor piano was a great bonding experience. Probably better for a marriage than making your spouses' eyes roll back in her head talking about technical trivia related to recordings. Women don't dig that as much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
this is pretty much a great post^

maybe it's the low fi bands I've listened to or perhaps it's the listening to music on the iMac and iPad speakers or perhaps it was years of listening to grateful dead, etc audience tapes but if the music is good the delivery medium (Hi-fi, pristine sound system) is secondary and really doesn't matter to me. I just don't nerdout on recording. I will say i absolutely hate that punch overly in your face 90's style of recordings but otherwise :shrug:....it's all good, it is what it is :embarrassed:
 
The saddest part of proud ignorance is the 'proud' part.

It is sad when people don't automatically agree with you. Diversity of opinion is a bad thing. Online forums are not really for opinions, just facts verified by science. I weep for the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You guys are still talking about this? I stated my opinions. 'Vox stated his, as did others. I don't agree with 'Vox and some others on this one. Oh well. Not like the corporations or insurance companies are going to go anything about it anyway. Carry on.
 
You guys are still talking about this? I stated my opinions. 'Vox stated his, as did others. I don't agree with 'Vox and some others on this one. Oh well. Not like the corporations or insurance companies are going to go anything about it anyway. Carry on.

sorry, if the thread is near the top it's just a place to to record my thought of the day. Not really trying to change anyone's mind, as much as reflecting to myself (publicly).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top