OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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wagdog said:
Pretty sure we've clearly stated that the 1A has time/manner/place restrictions. The 2A already has restrictions placed on it as well.

The point was that it doesn't matter if a technology was available at the time the BoR was written, the
BoR still applies.
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I wish we could sit down for a beer (water in my case) and discuss it. I think we could get to each others point a lot better without the internet being in the way.
 
Aahzz said:
No, the problem with using the watch list is that it bypasses due process. The NRA has actually said that they'd support legislation to use the list if the problems with the list itself were fixed. Right now there's no telling what criteria are used to place someone on the list, and there's no process to get off the list. That's the tactic of a totalitarian regime, started by Bush, continued by Obama, with plenty of blame to both Republicans and Democrats.

I fully support a solution that has due process rights in pace myself, but do not support the current lists being used for anything, including flying. Fix the lists and then we can have a real conversation.

NRA official statement is here: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160615/nra-statement-on-terror-watchlists
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So the NRA is now a de-facto ALCU, watching out for the rights of all americans?rotflmao

The NRA only cares about NRA members who pay their dues. Period. It couldn't possibly be that some of their members who are also militia members have found themselves on the terror watch list due to anti government actions?

http://www.infowars.com/bundy-family-treated-as-terror-suspects-by-tsa/

oopsie

As for the oft repeated claim that "Right now there's no telling what criteria are used to place someone on the list, and there's no process to get off the list", first if there is no known criteria, how do you know that there is NO PROCESS to get off said list?

Then there is this..

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na...ken-off-a-terrorist-1465772737-htmlstory.html

WHAT? Mateen did the unpossible. He was on a no fly list then was removed.:embarrassed:


So you will forgive me for not believing what the NRA says.

That doesn't mean that the lists cannot be fixed if they have problems, and that is a good idea. But abandoning the no fly lists because assholes like Bundy are on them isn't the right thing to do.
 
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335clone said:
The NRA only cares about NRA members who pay their dues.
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Untrue. The NRA cares deeply about the rights of ALL Americans... to buy as many guns as possible. THAT's their real constituency, the firearms industry. The rights of gun owners are important only as they pertain to the profits of that industry. And I say this as a gun owner and second amendment supporter.

My dad resigned his NRA membership in the '80s for this very reason. I have never been a member.
 
335clone said:
Then there is this..

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na...ken-off-a-terrorist-1465772737-htmlstory.html

WHAT? Mateen did the unpossible. He was on a no fly list then was removed.:embarrassed:
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I don't know this to be true, but I'm pretty sure he (Mateen) didn't DO anything to get off the list. I believe he was taken off by the FBI after being investigated. In other words, I don't think he petitioned to have himself removed, it just happened.

The issue is if you find yourself on the list, what is the due process to clear your name? Also, is your name ever really cleared, or are you on the list, but not active? What if the list becomes very long, and you're on it, for, oh, say 5 years before being cleared?
 
335clone said:
My argument is that the NRA is being disingenuous. Whether or not no fly lists need to be fixed is a different issue.
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No, that's exactly the issue. It was brought up (by you) that the NRA is fighting against using the no fly list to keep people from buying guns. There's a reason for that, and the reason is that the no fly list is broken. Hell, the NRA supported Cornyn's proposed bill, which the ACLU doesn't, and we all know the ACLU is no friend to gun rights.

If you really think the NRA is extreme you should check out the GOA.
 
Breaking News: Wall of garbage endorses Trump.
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