OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Mrs. P and I were just talking about Brexit this morning and wondering if it would pave the way for more states to attempt to exercise states rights over federal law.

I, honestly, haven't really kept up with the reasons for exiting or the impact that it will have.

You'd thing being involved in the financial sector, I'd have done that, but I haven't.

Yeah that's an interesting one. Earlier inthe week I was listening to NPR and they were talking to some British financial folks that said it wasn't a good idea for the British economy, but I didn't hear to the whole piece and I have no knowledge of any potential agenda these particular folks may have had. It's entirely possible that were being completely objective and just presenting data based on running the numbers.

Based on my extensively LIMITED knowledge of the situations, it strikes me as potentially being "independence" for it's own sake as opposed to something that promises to offer/provide any benefit. I'm thinking along the lines of Scottish independence. But Cameron is talking about resigning as a result, that's no small thing right there. Here laws that Presidents don't support or like get passed on the regular and they never threaten to resign...no matter how we might want them to. :thu:
 
Yeah that's an interesting one. Earlier inthe week I was listening to NPR and they were talking to some British financial folks that said it wasn't a good idea for the British economy, but I didn't hear to the whole piece and I have no knowledge of any potential agenda these particular folks may have had. It's entirely possible that were being completely objective and just presenting data based on running the numbers.

Based on my extensively LIMITED knowledge of the situations, it strikes me as potentially being "independence" for it's own sake as opposed to something that promises to offer/provide any benefit. I'm thinking along the lines of Scottish independence. But Cameron is talking about resigning as a result, that's no small thing right there. Here laws that Presidents don't support or like get passed on the regular and they never threaten to resign...no matter how we might want them to. :thu:

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One of my students is a DEA agent who also is a certified armorer (sp?) for several manufacturers and he explained it to me that the main issue with an AR-15 being shot at people vs a hand gun or higher powered rifle is that the bullet tumbles and then bounces around in a persons body doing a ton of internal damage instead of just passing through. I had asked him essentially what makes an AR-15 any different than a high caliber handgun and that was his practical explanation. I'm not very knowledgable about the subject in real life terms other than what I've read so it was nice getting his point of view.

I was a certified armorer in the USAF where the primary weapon was the M-16. Trained on the M-16 for 10 years and carried it for 10 year as my primary weapon in my career field. Your DEA friend has confused the .223 cal (5.56mm) M-16 and AR-15 round with and the common everyday .22LR (Long Rifle) round. The .223 used in the M-16 and AR-15 will leave a pencil sized hole going in and take out a baseball sized hole in a human going out. If it hits a bone it will shatter it. The .22LR round doesn't have the power to exit the body when it enters and so when it hits a bone will bounce off it as your friend describes. The .223 round does not tumble. The ammo we used in the 80's had a max effective range (look it up) of 460 meters and a max range of 3,250 meters.

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If you can find a Jewish person from WWII who lived in Germany at the time ask them about their 2nd amendment rights. While I do not believe a person needs a 30 round magazine or an AR15, I clearly believe I should have the right to own a firearm with at least a 6 round capability for home and personal defense.

Here's my thoughts on the second amendment.

1. The second amendment starts "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State". While the meaning of "well regulated" and "militia" can be debated endlessly, the fact that the words are present cannot be debated. Why are they there? Gun advocates claim that they are meant to be expository rather than limiting - in other words explaining the justification or need for the second amendment rather than limiting its scope. I don't buy that. The founding fathers did not seem to think that any of the other rights required exposition,so it is unlikely they would have added it to the second amendment just because. The US Constitution is terse and concise. The authors were not given to frilly wording. While we can't know exactly what the intentions of the founding fathers were, it is obvious they did not believe that the right to gun ownership should be universal and unlimited.

2. The word "militia" has been endlessly debated. While it is not explicitly defined in the Constitution, it is mentioned three times in section eight. In each of the three times "militia" is mentioned, the context is unmistakable: militia is something that is organized and controlled by the government. Gun advocates claim that if you take the body of evidence (all the writings of the era), "militia" is used to describe any male of age who is able to fight. Although popular, it is debatable (George Washington found militiamen worse than useless until the colonies started properly outfitting and training them).

3. Gun advocates claim that the founding fathers intended for citizens to be armed in the case that they needed to overthrow the government. I find this argument the most ridiculous of all. If the founding fathers had intended for there to be an escape mechanism from the United States, they'd have simply written one into the Constitution. In fact, the Constitutional convention was hastened along because the fledgling Federal government wanted the ability to squash uprisings like the then current whiskey rebellion. They certainly did not want armed citizens to overthrow the government.

4. Much is made of the 1886 US Supreme Court ruling that gun ownership is an individual right, and following rulings. It pays to keep in mind that the US Supreme court has also upheld bans on mixed race marriages. Supreme Court rulings are not immutable gospel and are subject to change.

This thread has gone 122 pages of interesting conversation and debate without getting locked. Please, please, let's keep this civil.
 
IMO in order to allow a civilian to own an AR15 the magazine well should be sealed and the weapon should be top load only with a 7 round max. A person should have to use the rear break down pin in order to load the gun. This would effectively make gun a sporting rifle instead of a assault weapon. As it is you can tape two 30 round mags together and have a 3 second reload in between mags. That is so nuts to be on the street.
 
Well there are roughly 300 million guns in the u.s. and about 1/3 of households have a firearm. So a lot of gun arguments are pretty much moot. Others however are not. :thu:
 
IMO in America no one is afraid of the NRA. Our Government isn't afraid of the NRA. Our Government is afraid of being massively out gunned by the population. Out gunned by A LOT that if it does something to stupid the entire Gov could get lynched and it's not crazy Billy Bob the redneck who owns these weapons or sportsmen like the NRA claims. There isn't that many rednecks or sportsmen on the planet.
 
IMO in America no one is afraid of the NRA. Our Government isn't afraid of the NRA. Our Government is afraid of being massively out gunned by the population. Out gunned by A LOT that if it does something to stupid the entire Gov could get lynched and it's not crazy Billy Bob the redneck who owns these weapons or sportsmen like the NRA claims. There isn't that many rednecks or sportsmen on the planet.



The US Navy can be anywhere in the world in 48 hours with an arsenal on board of one ship larger than most countries have.

20 year olds drinking red bull and eating Doritos in the AC can take out whole cities with drones from 1000s of miles away.

They aren't worried about being out gunned by the population. If anything, I think they would be worried about having to use force against a population that has no idea how hard they're about to get fucked.
 
The US Navy can be anywhere in the world in 48 hours with an arsenal on board of one ship larger than most countries have.

20 year olds drinking red bull and eating Doritos in the AC can take out whole cities with drones from 1000s of miles away.

They aren't worried about being out gunned by the population. If anything, I think they would be worried about having to use force against a population that has no idea how hard they're about to get fucked.

Then weapon of the Navy cannot be used on the ground in the United States because then everyone would plainly see how the drone flyers are not just killing bad people they're killing everyone.
 
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wow, did you REALLY say that? :facepalm:
You bet your ass I said it. Over night the world just change significantly. Donald Trump is in England saying he thinks it a great thing the way the vote went. If I lived in England that would scare the shit out of me. Hell, I live in the U.S. and it scares the shit out of me.
 
Yes he did. The best part is the responses of those people would be completely anti the 2nd Amendment and how it's being abused and are more likely to turn their ire towards Trump and nationalist sentiment.
Stop right there. I didn't ask or say that. I want you to find someone from that era who was disarmed and then watched his family and friends get taken and reduced to nothing against their will prior to getting taken to camps to then work and die by the MILLIONS without an ounce of anything to fight with.
 
Stop right there. I didn't ask or say that. I want you to find someone from that era who was disarmed and then watched his family and friends get taken and reduced to nothing against their will prior to getting taken to camps to then work and die by the MILLIONS without an ounce of anything to fight with.
I would very much appreciate it if you would not put words in the mouths of my dead family members.
 
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