Back to the 90s: Smashing Pumpkins vs Stone Temple Pilots

Well?

  • Total voters
    32
Peen Simmons said:
This post here is actually pretty troubling. I mean, this sounds like a Bowie/MC5 homage only if your exposure to Bowie was a couple Tin Machine discount bin discs and maybe Outside...and if you had never heard the MC5 ever.



Maybe @VoidTerraFirma has never heard the MC5 record produced by Springsteen manager Jon Landau before Landau saw the future of rock and proclaimed it Bruce Springsteen. (There’s not an inconsiderable bit of pre-work here that would later get filtered through the Boss and come out the other side as the River/Born in the USA sensibility.)

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I owned that record all the way back in 1986. I read about them in this Rock encyclopedia thing i had and went down to this massive used record warehouse we had PDQ which was massively gigantic and had all kinds of rare out of print stuff. People from all over the world shopped there reportedly and even Wayne Kramer supposedly shopped there because I think he lived in Pheonix for a while....anyway I went down looking for Kick out the Jams but they had this and so i bought it.
 
david bowie would never do electronic music or have anything to do with Trent Reznor.



Also, why do people think Ave Adore isn't guitar-based? It sounds like it to me. If you listen past like the first part of it. It even has a guitar solo.

 
DdBob said:
I remember when Zwan first appeared. I was heavily into Grateful Dead cd-r trading of shows(I started out with cassette tapes then it went to CD-R and then torrents) well anyway Zwan surfaced in various traders lists and this was quite a bit before they released their album. Then a few months later there were numerous Zwan shows making the rounds...they were becoming a Pearl Jam/Phish/Dead thing....then I think they played SNL and released their album and it was shit fro0m there on.
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Zwan was such a weird thing. They were good in the clubs. They had a lot of cool three-guitar stuff happening with Corgan and Pajo and Sweeney. Some interesting material and a whole second like acoustic Zep III type iteration and then...they scrapped some of the best stuff when they did the record and instead stood up behind some not that awesome alternapop singles and pulled the whole thing down around their heads. I saw them at Double Door six months so before the album dropped and they were pretty hot. And then the album came out and I caught the one of the album release shows at Metro and they all seemed to hate each other and it just was DONE. Then they limped along through festival season and died.

From what I’ve heard and read, it was a collab situation that became the Billy Corgan show in the studio and Corgan thought he was gonna recapture his glory days and leaned directly into his worst instincts chasing an audience.
 
We have the whole rockist mythology here:

The belief that distorted power chords are authentic, and synths are the anti-power chord for girls and babies (inauthentic).

Rock isn't actually pop music like Jessica Simpson, but something truer and realer. No matter how many times it gets played per day on radio and TV. They would never SELL OUT! Also, selling out is something that for some reason happens after they reach their peak commercially.

Pop Girls are image based and inauthentic, because they are girls after all, but the performative masculinity of rock dudes are totally real especially when they imitate previous rock dudes. And that's never a contradiction... because copying clothing styles and other things from older rock guys makes you truer to your artform. Rehashing classic rock tropes is never cynical.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Zwan was such a weird thing. They were good in the clubs. They had a lot of cool three-guitar stuff happening with Corgan and Pajo and Sweeney. Some interesting material and a whole second like acoustic Zep III type iteration and then...they scrapped some of the best stuff when they did the record and instead stood up behind some not that awesome alternapop singles and pulled the whole thing down around their heads. I saw them at Double Door six months so before the album dropped and they were pretty hot. And then the album came out and I caught the one of the album release shows at Metro and they all seemed to hate each other and it just was DONE. Then they limped along through festival season and died.

From what I’ve heard and read, it was a collab situation that became the Billy Corgan show in the studio and Corgan thought he was gonna recapture his glory days and leaned directly into his worst instincts chasing an audience.
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the George Lucas effect
 
Peen Simmons said:
Zwan was such a weird thing. They were good in the clubs. They had a lot of cool three-guitar stuff happening with Corgan and Pajo and Sweeney. Some interesting material and a whole second like acoustic Zep III type iteration and then...they scrapped some of the best stuff when they did the record and instead stood up behind some not that awesome alternapop singles and pulled the whole thing down around their heads. I saw them at Double Door six months so before the album dropped and they were pretty hot. And then the album came out and I caught the one of the album release shows at Metro and they all seemed to hate each other and it just was DONE. Then they limped along through festival season and died.

From what I’ve heard and read, it was a collab situation that became the Billy Corgan show in the studio and Corgan thought he was gonna recapture his glory days and leaned directly into his worst instincts chasing an audience.
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I'm sure Corgan in the studio is a complete horror show
 
Bones McHorror said:
We have the whole rockist mythology here:

The belief that distorted power chords are authentic, and synths are the anti-power chord for girls and babies (inauthentic).

Rock isn't actually pop music like Jessica Simpson, but something truer and realer. No matter how many times it gets played per day on radio and TV. They would never SELL OUT! Also, selling out is something that for some reason happens after they reach their peak commercially.

Pop Girls are image based and inauthentic, because they are girls after all, but the performative masculinity of rock dudes are totally real especially when they imitate previous rock dudes. And that's never a contradiction... because copying clothing styles and other things from older rock guys makes you truer to your artform. Rehashing classic rock tropes is never cynical.
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fwiw though there is a pretty high number of heavy metal dudes who are authentic. It's hard to i9magine someone like Matt pike or Creston Spiers (of Harvey Milk) doing it for the ride. These dudes live and breathe teh metal :wink: In fact the dictionary should have a picture of either dude next to the entry for metal
 
DdBob said:
I'm sure Corgan in the studio is a complete horror show
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I've really grown to dislike him over the last year and I am a very big Smashing Pumpkins fan.
Through lockdown he would host these Q&A sessions on Instagram and get pissed off at fans and boot them when they asked about music related stuff.
One minute he wants everyone to focus on how great his music is and the next minute he wants to be all bullshit philosophical and only talk about his wrestling or tea shops or himself.
You're a rock star dude. People want to know when the new stuff is coming out, not the consistency of your latest bowel movement.
 
Live and breathe the reality of you and your brother being really fucking good musicians and aging gracefully by making really fucking good guitar music for your fans.

 
VoidTerraFirma said:
Live and breathe the reality of you and your brother being really fucking good musicians and aging gracefully by making really fucking good guitar music for your fans.

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STP, the Ed Sheeran of grunge

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MonkeyZero said:
I've really grown to dislike him over the last year and I am a very big Smashing Pumpkins fan.
Through lockdown he would host these Q&A sessions on Instagram and get pissed off at fans and boot them when they asked about music related stuff.
One minute he wants everyone to focus on how great his music is and the next minute he wants to be all bullshit philosophical and only talk about his wrestling or tea shops or himself.
You're a rock star dude. People want to know when the new stuff is coming out, not the consistency of your latest bowel movement.
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Billy has always been an asshole, no question.
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
Live and breathe the reality of you and your brother being really fucking good musicians and aging gracefully by making really fucking good guitar music for your fans.

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The problem with STP (other than they rippoed off tgheir name from an oil additive company) is that they are talented, yes....BUT it's uninspired. It's beige corporate rock. I'm not familiar with Wok's Ed Sheehan guy other than I know the name and it's associated with beige. STP even with weiland was predictable and complete borelords who could be any nameless studio backing band. Even Greta Van Fleet has more to offer than STP/Penzoil
 
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DdBob said:
Billy has always been an asshole, no question.
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While I voted for STP, I am not so sure Billy beat out Scott for being a bigger asshole.
Scott Weiland signed on for one of those Rock Yacht tours where the fans hang out with the artists. One fan who paid a pretty penny asked Scott if he could get a picture with him. A belligerent and boozy Scott Weiland said something to the effect of "well, you paid your money right? Lets suck a dick".
Another fan on the cruise was telling Scott how STP really inspires him. Scott shut him down right away and informed the fan that he did not care to hear his story.
Plus there is all the missed gigs and flakiness that goes with him being an addict.
 
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