this is the thread where Flamencology answers my questions about Ken Burns' Jazz

I'm watching the last episode right now and remembered about this thread. Pretty much everything I wanted to say has been posted already herein but I did spend half of the time loving the documentary and half of it going "what about....?".

Strangely enough the Ken Burns perspective was how the majority of my college professor in the late 80's early 90's saw the world too. I had one guitar professor who really taught about contemporary jazz but the majority of it was the whole "Everything after 1954/1959 is garbage" schtick. I just read Ted Goia's Delta Blues book and I see it mentioned above that he has a book on Jazz so I think that'll be my next read. I did pick up a biography on Count Basie while we were in Carlsbad though so perhaps I'll get through that first.
 
I still have not watched it. I will put it on my list on netflix. Interested in the perspective. Generally, I like Burns stuff so will enjoy seeing his take on it. Of course, it is only one perspective.
 
I have to say that I am finding myself less thrilled with Ken Burns as he does more docs. There is a certain sameness to the presentation that I find makes them seem slow and draggy. That said, I am looking forward to the one on the Roosevelts.
 
Gary Blanchard said:
I have to say that I am finding myself less thrilled with Ken Burns as he does more docs. There is a certain sameness to the presentation that I find makes them seem slow and draggy. That said, I am looking forward to the one on the Roosevelts.
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That's his thing. Slow, draggy, and lopsided. Same goes for the Baseball documentary. If you're not a Yankees, Brooklyn Dodgers (yes, specifically the Brooklyn Dodgers), or Red Sox fan; the entire thing is a complete bore.
 
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Mark Wein said:
I just read Ted Goia's Delta Blues book and I see it mentioned above that he has a book on Jazz so I think that'll be my next read.
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That's a great single-volume jazz history text, but it's about 20 years old, and the newer Jazz by Gary Giddins and Scott DeVeaux is better.
 
And now I’ll do a gig at the Marciac Jazz Festival and I’ll get offstage and Wynton Marsalis will say, “That’s not jazz.” And I’ll say, “You’re right! But this is the only gig I’ve got, man. Give me another festival and I’ll play there.”

So who made Whineton the arbiter of what is jazz?
 
Not that he has all the answers, and I am not sure what "school of thought" he is from, but that Dr. Gordon Vernick, a jazz history professor, has a pod cast on the topic of "What is Jazz?". His answer is pretty interesting I think. He states that the one constant in jazz is change. He further questions whether it is really all that important to label certain types of music as jazz or not jazz. His podcasts are free and are at least another resource and new ones are still being released. He gives a lot of insights into periods of jazz, particular artists, etc. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/jazz-insights-dr.-gordon-vernick/id385045661?mt=2

If you don't want to go to iTunes, the "What is Jazz?" podcast is available here, along with one that discusses 1959, which he describes as the most important year in jazz. http://www.gordonvernick.com/html/downloads.php

@Flamencology , have you ever listened to any of these podcasts or are you aware of Dr. Vernick? If so, curious about your opinion of his podcasts.
 
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Tig said:
I for one enjoy the off topic ramblings of the Flat Earth Society. :embarrassed:
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meh. I could do without it in this context.

Just finished the last episode. They spend all of that time ignoring a LOT of music and dismissing fusion and electric instruments in general and then to prove that Jazz is still a living art they use electric instruments and musical fusions with other styles that also existed during the 70's and 80's but were "not hip" at that point in time. The last episode really annoyed me. Tyler and I started listing artists who were not represented in the documentary but possibly should have been and it was a pretty long list of bigger names.
 
sunvalleylaw said:
Not that he has all the answers, and I am not sure what "school of thought" he is from, but that Dr. Gordon Vernick, a jazz history professor, has a pod cast on the topic of "What is Jazz?". His answer is pretty interesting I think. He states that the one constant in jazz is change. He further questions whether it is really all that important to label certain types of music as jazz or not jazz. His podcasts are free and are at least another resource and new ones are still being released. He gives a lot of insights into periods of jazz, particular artists, etc. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/jazz-insights-dr.-gordon-vernick/id385045661?mt=2

If you don't want to go to iTunes, the "What is Jazz?" podcast is available here, along with one that discusses 1959, which he describes as the most important year in jazz. http://www.gordonvernick.com/html/downloads.php

@Flamencology , have you ever listened to any of these podcasts or are you aware of Dr. Vernick? If so, curious about your opinion of his podcasts.
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I haven't, but I'll check it out.
 
Mark Wein said:
meh. I could do without it in this context.

Just finished the last episode. They spend all of that time ignoring a LOT of music and dismissing fusion and electric instruments in general and then to prove that Jazz is still a living art they use electric instruments and musical fusions with other styles that also existed during the 70's and 80's but were "not hip" at that point in time. The last episode really annoyed me. Tyler and I started listing artists who were not represented in the documentary but possibly should have been and it was a pretty long list of bigger names.
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I haven't watched that recently - it's been a few years - but, IIRC, what pissed me off most was its coverage of the AACM. Maybe Ornette, too, I don't remember.
 
If I am not mistaken (though I frequently am), Wynton Marsalis was deeply involved in this documentary, and he is known to have very strong views as to what constitutes jazz. Probably had a lot to do with what Mark reported on the last episode.

That would be like having me as an advisor on a program on Americana. :grin:
 
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