this is the thread where Flamencology answers my questions about Ken Burns' Jazz

Dew Knot Hump said:
"Where is Taint? You've got your fuckin' horn so far deep in the fuckin' bell, we don't need to have a band here tonight. You afraid you won't be heard? Everybody can hear your fuckin' clams out there. You don't need a mike for that. You're takin' up too much fuckin' time blowin' what? Shit!! You stand out here all night tryin' to blow your fuckin' brains out; when it comes time to play, what do you play? Clams!! You got nowhere to fuckin' go tonight the next set because if I hear one fuckin' clam from anybody, you've had it! One clam and this whole fuckin' band is through...tonight!! Try me! You got some fuckin' nerve. Nights off, nothin' to do, and you come in and play this kind of shit for me...Fuck"
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WHO PLAYED THAT!!!!!! WHO PLAYED THAT FUCKING CLAM!!!!!?!?!?!?


BuddyRich7.jpg
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
anyway, back on track.

the series obviously has its own box set. i've got that. but are the compilations comprehensive? i'm not looking for every last thing Jelly Roll Morton and Sidney Bechet did, but something in between primer and every b-side and out-take ever recorded would be nice.
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Howie, I just gave a few of those discs some quick comparisons...

I'd actually recommend the Coleman Hawkins and Fletcher Henderson compilations, but for the rest of them, you can do better elsewhere.
 
Flamencology said:
Howie, I just gave a few of those discs some quick comparisons...

I'd actually recommend the Coleman Hawkins and Fletcher Henderson compilations, but for the rest of them, you can do better elsewhere.
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sweet, thanks. i'm also listening to the box set and putting stuff into Pandora.
 
Is there a thread anywhere on the internet on any subject whatsoever that an intervention by Mr Jimmy James will not improve the bejesus out of?
 
ok, so i'm up to the Bird/Diz episode. i think its interesting that they portray Bird as the next revolutionary after Louis Armstrong. its almost as if they're saying "yeah, we spent all this time talking about Duke and Benny Goodman because they were popular, but those are the guys you need to know". at least that's what i get out of it.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
ok, so i'm up to the Bird/Diz episode. i think its interesting that they portray Bird as the next revolutionary after Louis Armstrong. its almost as if they're saying "yeah, we spent all this time talking about Duke and Benny Goodman because they were popular, but those are the guys you need to know". at least that's what i get out of it.
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Benny Goodman, maybe. Probably most notable for Charlie Christian, who was incredibly influential.

But Basie is fucking important. Ellington is either just as important as Armstrong, or not far behind, IMHO. You almost want to think of jazz as a double-helix, like a DNA strand - there are the great composers/arrangers, and then there are the great instrumentalists/improvisers/vocalists. And Ellington's band was loaded with important musicians, too... Jimmy Blanton, Ben Webster, Bubber Miley, Johnny Hodges, Paul Gonsalves, etc. were all incredibly influential.

But yeah. It's a little easy to dismiss the swing era, as it probably doesn't have the same degree of influence on contemporary jazz as bebop, or maybe even New Orleans jazz. But that'd probably be a mistake.

Scott DeVeaux wrote a great book (it's a little academic, if you don't have a little background in musicology, actually, so don't take me at my word on that) called The Birth of Bebop in which he posits Coleman Hawkins as a central figure in that movement, in terms of linking multiple generations together. Also, Thelonious Monk was the fucking house pianist at Minton's, so he was pretty damn important to bop, as well. Don't forget, you're getting one side of a story, more or less.

But yeah, Charlie Parker really was everything that he's made out to be. Stanley Crouch, as much as I can't stand him at times, has been working on an epic biography called Kansas City Lightning for years now. It's kind of like the Chinese Democracy of jazz biography, as many doubt that it will ever materialize.
 
i've got a Basie vs Duke album that just kills.

its definitely a bi-polar documentary series. they're bouncing all over, trying to paint a picture, but every so often they say something like "yeah, that was cool. but fuck it, here's Charlie Parker." and it definitely paints Coleman Hawkins as the bridge between Swing and Bebop.
 
ok, i watched the controversial last episode.

jazz dies with Armstrong and Ellington and is resurrected by Wynton Marsalis.

whatta maroon.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
at the same time, it's worth watching just to have that discussion. i'd like to see something that fills in the holes and offers the other perspective.
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As I'm sure you've already surmised, there's nothing really comparable in film.

There are a couple of great (and highly readable and entertaining) history texts that are worthwhile, chiefly Ted Gioia's The History of Jazz and Jazz by Giddins/DeVeaux. Each would serve that purpose.

Stuart Nicholson's Is Jazz Dead? (Or Has It Moved to a New Address) is essentially a book-long critique of that perspective, focusing on jazz as a global music, in Europe and elsewhere. It also devotes time to criticizing the politics of JALC, Crouch/Murray/Marsalis, etc. It's a great read, but you'll probably have to go out and get a lot of new music as a consequence.

Meanwhile, back to film, there are certainly a number of less ambitious documentaries which fill in the gaps by focusing on specific individuals or "scenes" - Mingus, Buena Vista Social Club, Calle 54, Ornette: Made in America, Last of the Blue Devils, etc., but few that cover the last 40 years or so.
 
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This is a great thread. I love jazz, and frankly started with the 80s fusion oriented stuff and worked backwards. I love the podcasts put out by Gordon Vernick entitled "Jazz Insights". http://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/jazz-insights-media/id405935692 Possibly a bit superficial, but for me, a wonderful primer I have enjoyed listening to in the car during work road trips over the summer. Flamencology, do you like his work? EDIT: In one of his podcasts, Dr. Vernick posits that jazz is always changing and therefore very hard to define. But his opinion is that jazz still exists, and keeps moving forward, much like Miles Davis did. I guess I see it as some roads split off and turn into something else that is not jazz, like easy listening or elevator music, or prog for that matter. But the trail still continues.

I just bought the Ken Burns soundtrack for my Dad, who played alto sax in a swing oriented band in high school and college, and who still plays a pretty darned good alto and tenor sax. I need to find the movie so I can watch it.

P.S. George Benson is a great player. No doubt. Very Wes Montgomery influenced in my opinion. His popular stuff in the 70s was way overproduced with nasty strings added and such like that, but he is still a great player.
 
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Boo-urns!

I tried to make it through the Jazz series, but couldn't. This is actually the first I've heard about Marsalis being revealed as the Saviour of Jazz in the final episode. :spaz:
 
sunvalleylaw said:
P.S. George Benson is a great player. No doubt. Very Wes Montgomery influenced in my opinion. His popular stuff in the 70s was way overproduced with nasty strings added and such like that, but he is still a great player.
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i don't think that anybody is going to deny that Benson is a great player. but as we learned from the war against music, amazing playing and good music don't always go hand in hand.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
i don't think that anybody is going to deny that Benson is a great player. but as we learned from the war against music, amazing playing and good music don't always go hand in hand.
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...when ever my local jazz station says they have some George Benson coming up, I hold my breath...luckily, its usually something good though, they know whats good at WRTI...
 
Dew Knot Hump said:
No part of Terri Hemmerts body will ever be in my mouth bro. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
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I think she would agree.
However, I'd bet she'd pay for a pair of Wine Goggles for your curvy friend there.

TerriHemmert.JPG


Just couldn't resist. Sorry.

All monkey business aside, AWESOME thread. Props to HIaR & Flame-o.

I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around Wynton's hardcore Purist stance. It's as if he wanted to lock down his definition of "JAZZ" where he found that it worked for him and his context, and to Hell with the rest of you indiscriminate know-nothings who don't have the provenance/"Heritage" and anywhere near as much time, energy and ego invested as I do. It's like he's saying "I own the right to say this."

Well, I agree, he certainly does. But...he's just a guy.

Miles Davis was just a guy. Coolest, hippest guy ever. But, just a guy.
 
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