OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Flamencology said:
I disagree.

“Who are they? Right to life, pro-assault weapons, anti-gay — if that’s who they are, they have no place in the state of New York because that’s not who New Yorkers are.”

He added that moderate Republicans, such as those in the state Senate, “have a place in their state.”

I'm totally fine with this statement.

The people being talked about here are in zero danger of ever being rounded up, arrested, deported, imprisoned, tried, convicted, criminalizes, etc.

Being harshly criticized is not only fair game, but well-deserved. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from ostracization.

And completely consistent with the politics of those who legislated the declaration and the constitution.
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I disagree on the assertion that he has the right to define what a New Yorker is...I personally represent none of the people he speaks about but I fully support their right to believe as they do and cast their votes accordingly...by defining who specifically gets to be here he is being dictatorial...

Criticism is fine and welcome...being told you have no right to exist is not...
 
jelloman said:
I disagree on the assertion that he has the right to define what a New Yorker is...I personally represent none of the people he speaks about but I fully support their right to believe as they do and cast their votes accordingly...by defining who specifically gets to be here he is being dictatorial...

Criticism is fine and welcome...being told you have no right to exist is not...
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Everyone has the right to define anything. Definitions will always be flexible.
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
Hillary and Bernie "look good on TV"?!?

/ducks and covers from incoming F-bomb blast
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Ok, that is a valid point...but can you really tell me there are not any other candidates that the Democrats could present that would be better than them? Are those 2 the best the Democrats have to offer us?

The republicans really have done a horrific job of representing themselves with their candidates...when the more conservative end of the party got this level of influence they boxed themselves in...the democrats certainly presented a wider spectrum to choose from...

Trump is winning much to the republicans chagrine...it will be interesting to see if they can present a united front behind him or if the party splinters at the convention...
 
jelloman said:
Ok, that is a valid point...but can you really tell me there are not any other candidates that the Democrats could present that would be better than them? Are those 2 the best the Democrats have to offer us?

The republicans really have done a horrific job of representing themselves with their candidates...when the more conservative end of the party got this level of influence they boxed themselves in...the democrats certainly presented a wider spectrum to choose from...

Trump is winning much to the republicans chagrine...it will be interesting to see if they can present a united front behind him or if the party splinters at the convention...
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Sure we do. But Elizabeth Warren won't run.
 
Flamencology said:
Everyone has the right to define anything. Definitions will always be flexible.
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But when tjose definitions are being used to disenfranchise a segment of the population you sit at the head of and tell them that their point of view has no place in that society it becomes an issue where people of all kinds are supposed to be able to exist freely...
 
Kerouac said:
Sure we do. But Elizabeth Warren won't run.
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and on the republican side there's a MUCH better choice, but as many times as he's been asked, Colin Powell won't run either.
i would vote for him in a blue heartbeat. but as things stand right now, the way the GOP has been going for some time, i will vote for Hillary just to stop Trump and the uber right of the GOP. AND will change my party affiliation after this election. i want NOTHING to do with the GOP of today. i have no interest in being ruled by their bible.
 
mongooz said:
and on the republican side there's a MUCH better choice, but as many times as he's been asked, Colin Powell won't run either.
i would vote for him in a blue heartbeat. but as things stand right now, the way the GOP has been going for some time, i will vote for Hillary just to stop Trump and the uber right of the GOP. AND will change my party affiliation after this election. i want NOTHING to do with the GOP of today. i have no interest in being ruled by their bible.
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Clarify for me...do you think Trump represents the uber-right? I think it's the uber-right who have worked the hardest to defeat him...and I also agree with you that the uber-right does not in any way represent a majority viewpoint, or mine...
 
jelloman said:
Ok, that is a valid point...but can you really tell me there are not any other candidates that the Democrats could present that would be better than them? Are those 2 the best the Democrats have to offer us?
.
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They are both vastly more qualified and dignified than anyone the GOP has put forth since Bob Dole.
 
jelloman said:
Clarify for me...do you think Trump represents the uber-right? I think it's the uber-right who have worked the hardest to defeat him...and I also agree with you that the uber-right does not in any way represent a majority viewpoint, or mine...
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no, i don't think trump is uber right.....i think he's a dictator wannabe. my comment about the uber right was more about the christo-fascists like cruz and lindsay graham, and mconnell and hatch....etc. they want to be able to legally discriminate against an entire class of americans because those americans don't meet their version of morality.

the worst thing that has happened to the GOP is the take over by the evangelists. they're driving lots of moderate republicans, like me.....TO the democrat party.
 
jelloman said:
And that's my whole issue with the system as it exists...
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Well, we can't force people to run. Can you blame someone for not wanting to subject their family and friends to the shit-show that is the modern political process?

Feel free to write this off as a partisan statement, but Fox News has made the political climate downright toxic. Two hours of actual news a day, then 22 hours of opinion and fear mongering. For a "news" network that has only existed for 20 years, they've completely flipped the script and their are nothing but the media outlet of the right-wing. That's fucking CRIMINAL.
 
Flamencology said:
Because the status quo is archaic, unsustainable, disenfranchising, embarrassing to much of the rest of the first world, and out of touch with reality.
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I'm sorry, but that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with.

Can you narrow and qualify these points?

What is the status quo in the US now? Why is it archaic, and why is that bad? What is unsustainable about it?

The rest of the first world is embarrassed with us?

Arguing over sound-bites is pretty pointless.
 
mongooz said:
no, i don't think trump is uber right.....i think he's a dictator wannabe. my comment about the uber right was more about the christo-fascists like cruz and lindsay graham, and mconnell and hatch....etc. they want to be able to legally discriminate against an entire class of americans because those americans don't meet their version of morality.

the worst thing that has happened to the GOP is the take over by the evangelists. they're driving lots of moderate republicans, like me.....TO the democrat party.
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Ok, thank you...and it's one of the reasons I choose to remain an independent...
 
Kerouac said:
Well, we can't force people to run. Can you blame someone for not wanting to subject their family and friends to the shit-show that is the modern political process?

Feel free to write this off as a partisan statement, but Fox News has made the political climate downright toxic. Two hours of actual news a day, then 22 hours of opinion and fear mongering. For a "news" network that has only existed for 20 years, they've completely flipped the script and their are nothing but the media outlet of the right-wing. That's fucking CRIMINAL.
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while i don't completely disagree with your criticism of Fox.....ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS have been pretty left leaning for quite a while.
 
wagdog said:
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with.

Can you narrow and qualify these points?

What is the status quo in the US now? Why is it archaic, and why is that bad? What is unsustainable about it?

The rest of the first world is embarrassed with us?

Arguing over sound-bites is pretty pointless.
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Just off the top of my head our gun death epidemic and lack of health care for every citizen is both archaic and an embarrassment.
 
Kerouac said:
Well, we can't force people to run. Can you blame someone for not wanting to subject their family and friends to the shit-show that is the modern political process?

Feel free to write this off as a partisan statement, but Fox News has made the political climate downright toxic. Two hours of actual news a day, then 22 hours of opinion and fear mongering. For a "news" network that has only existed for 20 years, they've completely flipped the script and their are nothing but the media outlet of the right-wing. That's fucking CRIMINAL.
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Yes, Andy, it is partisan when you take into consideration the existence of MSNBC which does the exact same thing for the other side...
 
mongooz said:
while i don't completely disagree with your criticism of Fox.....ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS have been pretty left leaning for quite a while.
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I think the only real reason it appears that way is Fox News is more propaganda than news network and has spent the last two decades trying to convince everyone that they;re the only "fair and balanced" network and everything else is the great "Liberal Media" agenda. That's bullshit.
 
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Kerouac said:
Fuck MSNBC. As I said above, that's a bullshit argument.
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From the point of view of comparison to FOX? I disagree, both netowrks are performing the same function...

The liberal media bias has been bandied about for years and is indeed bullshit...but those 2 networks are the exception to the bias argument...
 
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