Deep Eddy
Argle Bargle or Foofaraw?
Are you really suggesting that some male bands craft an image too? That's unpossible!
Is Taylor Swift the New Eddie Van Halen?
- Thread starter Modern Saint
- Start date
Are you really suggesting that some male bands craft an image too? That's unpossible!
Gary Blanchard
beloved, local musician
I am not calling you a mysogynist. I am simply pointing out a societal bias that many people have, probably myself included at times. Sorry, I was not meaning to call anyone out, just making a general observation.
Beyer160
Vagabond Of The Western World
She is loathsome, but she's just one of the heads of the hydra. If you pulled a Terminator and went back in time and murdered her mother so TS was never born, there'd just be some other annoying pop singer in her place today.
No way, I'll take VH every time. With TS you'd get a pasteurized, clinical pop performance. With VH there exists the very real possibility of a complete fucking trainwreck, which is MUCH more entertaining.
Flamencology
You don't deserve koa.
Highernoon
Burninator
lmbo
Beyer160
Vagabond Of The Western World
To me, Van Halen is pasteurized clinical pop.
My point is that a TS gig is unlikely to become an embarrassing shitshow, while the chance of than happening at a VH gig is very real.
(the fun really starts at about 42 seconds in)
Acadiafall
Kiss Me Hardy
Well I like her, she's a decent guitar player and writes her own music.
She's currently one of the top pop acts in the world, even if you don't like her music its still clear she has talent.
She's currently one of the top pop acts in the world, even if you don't like her music its still clear she has talent.
Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
Again, her writing ability has been disputed quite a bit. And what's a decent guitar player? Using one as a prop? Nah. Being able to strum a few chords? Really?
I'm not trying to get anyone to hate her. Enjoy the music, but don't be fooled into thinking she's the second coming of any great talent. And that's the rub that many of have with her, is the complete recognition that talent is subjective BUT it's also clear that it's a non-requirement for modern pop music success.
Lastly, popularity and quality don't always go together. Neither do popularity and talent, regardless of the field. I mean McDonald's is one of the most popular restaurants EVER, but I don't anyone thinks of them as fine dining.
Gary Blanchard
beloved, local musician
The author of the original article that started this discussion really came up with a rather ridiculous analogy as Van Halen and Swift are very different ways of playing a guitar, just as Pete Seeger and Earl Scruggs offer very different ways to play banjo. If we are just looking at people who see either one and say, "Gee, I should get a guitar," I'd say that just about any guitarist might have that effect; Van Halen and Swift just have a larger audience.
As someone who has spent 50 years strumming a few chords, I'd like to think that I am a decent guitarist.
As someone who has spent 50 years strumming a few chords, I'd like to think that I am a decent guitarist.
yabba
Weird Pick Butt Person
I don't think "any great talent" is required to make enjoyable music.
Sure, there are some incredibly talented musicians out there, but let's be honest - if you take making music as a whole, it's not exactly rocket science
Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
That's cool we can disagree. I think it takes great talent to make the music I enjoy and that's based on the actual artists/bands and not their musical ability.
Yeah, we're talking about art here for which, thankfully, there is no objective measure for quality. It just happens for me that the majority of most popular stuff regardless of artist(s)/band(s) and respective genres isn't stuff I want to or enjoy listening to. Which brings me back to the notion of great talent...Eddie had that and to date I've not heard evidence that Taylor does. Based on her success and popularity, I find that sad. Not losing sleep over it, but still.
As to the sub-discussion, I've no desire to attend a concert by either artist, but I'd go see VH again well before Ms. Swift. Maybe Dave will have a good night it will sound great (unlikely) or maybe Eddie and Sammy can patch things up and I can enjoy some Van Hagar for nostalgia's sake. There's nothing for me at a Taylor Swift show...nothing.
Peen Simmons
Let’s Get Obtuse!
Is EVH really a "great talent?" I mean, he was a virtuoso as far as electric rock guitar goes...but that's like being a genius at acting in infomercials.
Still, how much of his "talent" was really just a byproduct of being an obsessive autistic, alcoholic weirdo who by his own admission is not really a fan of music or a dedicated artist pursuing a real method or craft?
Genius and real talent are rare commodities in pop music because pop music is stupid and rewards mediocrity. The best of it is transcendent. The bulk of it is like eating stale candy.
Still, how much of his "talent" was really just a byproduct of being an obsessive autistic, alcoholic weirdo who by his own admission is not really a fan of music or a dedicated artist pursuing a real method or craft?
Genius and real talent are rare commodities in pop music because pop music is stupid and rewards mediocrity. The best of it is transcendent. The bulk of it is like eating stale candy.
Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
Hey, you can minimize artistic talent all you want. I think Eddie would have been successful at whatever instrument or music upon which he chose to focus. Party rock or the origins of hair metal not withstanding, I can't see how you're doing anything but trolling right now.
Imagine what he would have done had he not hampered himself with drugs and alcohol. Does methodology make one a great talent? It's just another means to an end of creating music. There are some scarily talented players around right now that went through rigorous programs of study to validate their musicianship and skill, but that does nothing dismiss Wes Montgomery's abilities that were based on his ears and hands. Similarly with many amazing bluegrass musicians and various worl dmusicians where the "method" is playing, playing a lot with other musicians. They aren't studying a method, but playing often. Some spend more time working on being a player and others on creating music...some of the best in any field combine a decent amount of both.
Anyway, I find the dismissive tone of some of these post as relates to music and certain genres disheartening. I'm all for to each their own, but...
All this said, I'm not a huge Van Halen fan, I just respect what he's accomplished and the influence he's had (despite not caring for the vast majority of the music he's influenced). Taylor is merely influential in her popularity as she's not doing anything even slightly new musically. It is vapid and trite...to my ears. I'll step away from this thread though, as it's going nowhere.
gtrjunior
Wannabe
I wish I could "like"this post more than just once...I agree wholeheartedly.Hey, you can minimize artistic talent all you want. I think Eddie would have been successful at whatever instrument or music upon which he chose to focus. Party rock or the origins of hair metal not withstanding, I can't see how you're doing anything but trolling right now.
Imagine what he would have done had he not hampered himself with drugs and alcohol. Does methodology make one a great talent? It's just another means to an end of creating music. There are some scarily talented players around right now that went through rigorous programs of study to validate their musicianship and skill, but that does nothing dismiss Wes Montgomery's abilities that were based on his ears and hands. Similarly with many amazing bluegrass musicians and various worl dmusicians where the "method" is playing, playing a lot with other musicians. They aren't studying a method, but playing often. Some spend more time working on being a player and others on creating music...some of the best in any field combine a decent amount of both.
Anyway, I find the dismissive tone of some of these post as relates to music and certain genres disheartening. I'm all for to each their own, but...
All this said, I'm not a huge Van Halen fan, I just respect what he's accomplished and the influence he's had (despite not caring for the vast majority of the music he's influenced). Taylor is merely influential in her popularity as she's not doing anything even slightly new musically. It is vapid and trite...to my ears. I'll step away from this thread though, as it's going nowhere.
Peen Simmons
Let’s Get Obtuse!
Being a great singer/player/technician of any sort is not the same as being a great or even good artist.
I'm sorry if frank appraisals of relative artistic merit bother you, but your feelings don't make you less incorrect. Neither EVH nor Taylor Swift are great artists. Both have produced pop music of the same general levels of enjoyability.
I'm not really interested in conspiracy theories about who really writes all the stuff Swift gets a co-write credit on. None of it is that complicated/sophisticated so it seems totally likely that a person who has been a pop music professional since high school could create it herself. I mean, if four working class louts from Liverpool could claim to have created Revolver anything is possible.
And I do believe that conscious attention to method/process (and to a lesser extent craft and dolphins) is important for sustaining and developing one's creative/artistic chops...especially once one's first naive burst of intuition/inspiration starts to run out.
I'm sorry if frank appraisals of relative artistic merit bother you, but your feelings don't make you less incorrect. Neither EVH nor Taylor Swift are great artists. Both have produced pop music of the same general levels of enjoyability.
I'm not really interested in conspiracy theories about who really writes all the stuff Swift gets a co-write credit on. None of it is that complicated/sophisticated so it seems totally likely that a person who has been a pop music professional since high school could create it herself. I mean, if four working class louts from Liverpool could claim to have created Revolver anything is possible.
And I do believe that conscious attention to method/process (and to a lesser extent craft and dolphins) is important for sustaining and developing one's creative/artistic chops...especially once one's first naive burst of intuition/inspiration starts to run out.
She filled up the COTA concert with almost 90,000 people, and she put on a very good show. Not my kind of music, but everyone there was having a good time. I guess that is the most important part, people like what she is doing and will pay to see her do it. My feelings on the phenomenon and the cultural significance are irrelevant.
335clone
Living the dream
It's ok, I liked it for you.