Impact on Musicians from AI

nuke_diver

nuke_diver

Riding Solo
This video was posted in the Political section but I'm interested in what you all think about the impacts of the technology and not everyone goes to that forum and frankly I think (maybe I'm wrong) but the implications aren't political. I've never been a musician so I don't really know how this would shake out. One thought is that small live performances might become more desirable so people KNOW they are listening to a real musician. I also wonder if it might spur more interest in the "oldies" because people would also be sure that they were not performed or written by a computer. Beato has some good points here as well.



What say ye? And the mods can delete this if they think it's really a political debate :shrug:
 
I think as AI capabilities "improve" exponentially over the next few years, the music biz is in for some big changes. I also think Rick makes some very valid points and predictions.

Pop music will likely pay a higher price in terms of artists/ songwriters being put out of work IMO. Live music could benefit as you point out, but only if human artists' new releases can rise above the AI content.
 
We’re not using AI to write music but we have started using AI to generate album art for new singles. The images are ok, I don’t love them and I don’t connect with them and beyond the first glance there’s no interesting detail. I’d rather work with an artist and pay them.
 
not a fan. Music, art of any kind expresses the human soul...AI is obviously not human. It's fake news (now I made it political :embarrassed: ) I mean artificial.
Let's say Nuke_diver and an AI are in front of me. I punch nuke_diver in the face and then I punch AI in the face.nuke will have an immediate "primal" reaction and most likely punch me back because of his "programmed" fight or flight response. AI will not be able to punch me back . Nuke will later WONDER WHY i punched him and start questioning all kinds of avenues on why. it might bring up old memories from his youth, it might make him question himself why he punched me back and then confront whether he did the right or wrong response. then further down the line he might regret it or he might come back and shoot me....or he might write a song about giving peace a chance....
AI will be programmed fro an "A" response, perhaps a "B" response but it ends there.

People might argue that synthesizers, drum machines, etc are already AI but the difference is a human programs them (or plays in real time)with emotions from days, weeks, moments leading up to the performance. If in real time it would include"call and response", reaction, counterpoint, etc and Nuke would be self aware of the style of music he was playing. he would not play a polka beat to a disco song even if they were in the same time signature, key , and other things that checked the boxes, etc

Auto tine would surely come up as a topic and most would agree it sucks but when done in an ironic way or as a glaring contrast and brief usage it can be great. I don't think the AI will ever be able to read and adjust to trends or the nuances that make art art. That's why art is not science and science is not art.

Keep in mind it's 4:30 am and I just woke up. If I was AI this would not come into play with my thought process, there would be no differentiation between now and say 1 am after being up 17 hours.
On the other hand AI might be able to do a better Sinatra than Sinatra and she could also do "in the style of" .....anybody but she couldn't do her own style

:belushi:
 
BlockInlay said:
We’re not using AI to write music but we have started using AI to generate album art for new singles. The images are ok, I don’t love them and I don’t connect with them and beyond the first glance there’s no interesting detail. I’d rather work with an artist and pay them.
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Not to be argumentative, but if you’d rather work with an artist and pay them, why don’t you?
 
tiger roach said:
Al who?
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It's Paul Simon.

20230506_081229.jpg
 
A hundred years ago we thought we cracked to code for unlimited crop growth. Now our food is less nutritious and we're constantly on the verge of a mega dust bowl. To extend the analogy, I think there are musical micronutrients listeners will start to crave.

In the meantime, every time I make a mistake on stage, I tell the audience that they should be grateful I allowed them to witness an increasingly precious demonstration of human error.
 
Chicken Man said:
A hundred years ago we thought we cracked to code for unlimited crop growth. Now our food is less nutritious and we're constantly on the verge of a mega dust bowl. To extend the analogy, I think there are musical micronutrients listeners will start to crave.

In the meantime, every time I make a mistake on stage, I tell the audience that they should be grateful I allowed them to witness an increasingly precious demonstration of human error.
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Under such conditions I could be a superstar :grin:
 
William Gibson’s novel Idoru predicted industry generated stars in 1996. It has an AI generated Japanese pop star referred to as an idoru. It’s a great book if you like pre-smartphone era cyberpunk.

I think we’ll see artists who can’t write wiped out. The labels won’t need people like Katy Perry, Rihanna, or Beyonce to come in and sing songs that the AI wrote. There will be Idoru to appear in music videos instead. It will be interesting to see what happens to arena and stadium concerts. They might just disappear when the superstars don’t have bodies. Or they’ll turn into modern dance ensemble performances, which is what a lot of the pop stars who don’t sing live have been doing since the 1980s. This could be a huge moneymaker for record labels who can put on tours themselves and keep all the money.

A small numbers of writers who can actually write new stuff to train AI on will remain relevant even if they aren’t allowed to record and perform their songs. The next generation of Taylor Swifts, Lady Gagas, and Missy Elliots will be writing stuff for the AIs.

And I think some genres will resist AI because the listeners just don’t accept big label music anyway. Black metal, doom metal, and punk fans aren’t going to pay attention to the AI world. They’ll keep buying albums from independent bands that only release their music on Bandcamp.
 
rhino said:
Not to be argumentative, but if you’d rather work with an artist and pay them, why don’t you?
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Fair question. The most recent songs were written by a single band member, not me, so it’s his baby and rightfully so.
 
jp_nyc said:
William Gibson’s novel Idoru predicted industry generated stars in 1996. It has an AI generated Japanese pop star referred to as an idoru. It’s a great book if you like pre-smartphone era cyberpunk.

I think we’ll see artists who can’t write wiped out. The labels won’t need people like Katy Perry, Rihanna, or Beyonce to come in and sing songs that the AI wrote. There will be Idoru to appear in music videos instead. It will be interesting to see what happens to arena and stadium concerts. They might just disappear when the superstars don’t have bodies. Or they’ll turn into modern dance ensemble performances, which is what a lot of the pop stars who don’t sing live have been doing since the 1980s. This could be a huge moneymaker for record labels who can put on tours themselves and keep all the money.

A small numbers of writers who can actually write new stuff to train AI on will remain relevant even if they aren’t allowed to record and perform their songs. The next generation of Taylor Swifts, Lady Gagas, and Missy Elliots will be writing stuff for the AIs.

And I think some genres will resist AI because the listeners just don’t accept big label music anyway. Black metal, doom metal, and punk fans aren’t going to pay attention to the AI world. They’ll keep buying albums from independent bands that only release their music on Bandcamp.
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I haven’t read this one by Gibson but will now, thanks!

I can easily see a genre divergence happening, some people won’t care, some will prefer AI entertainment, and some will only want authentic meat bag entertainment. I’m just glad we won’t live to see the replicants.
 
I can think of ways people will use AI in music.

Maybe as visual art projects. Or certain types of specialized instruments like Holly Herndon's Holly+. It might also facilitate musical education, as well. There are a lot of other things that could work.

But everyone listening to shitty Drake ripoffs is incredibly unlikely. I know this forum often loves to think everyone is a dumbass (not themselves though), but I would bet almost any amount of money that is not the future.
 
jp_nyc said:
William Gibson’s novel Idoru predicted industry generated stars in 1996. It has an AI generated Japanese pop star referred to as an idoru. It’s a great book if you like pre-smartphone era cyberpunk.

I think we’ll see artists who can’t write wiped out. The labels won’t need people like Katy Perry, Rihanna, or Beyonce to come in and sing songs that the AI wrote. There will be Idoru to appear in music videos instead. It will be interesting to see what happens to arena and stadium concerts. They might just disappear when the superstars don’t have bodies. Or they’ll turn into modern dance ensemble performances, which is what a lot of the pop stars who don’t sing live have been doing since the 1980s. This could be a huge moneymaker for record labels who can put on tours themselves and keep all the money.

A small numbers of writers who can actually write new stuff to train AI on will remain relevant even if they aren’t allowed to record and perform their songs. The next generation of Taylor Swifts, Lady Gagas, and Missy Elliots will be writing stuff for the AIs.

And I think some genres will resist AI because the listeners just don’t accept big label music anyway. Black metal, doom metal, and punk fans aren’t going to pay attention to the AI world. They’ll keep buying albums from independent bands that only release their music on Bandcamp.
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I’d add Americana to that list, but yeah.
 
BlockInlay said:
Fair question. The most recent songs were written by a single band member, not me, so it’s his baby and rightfully so.
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As AI becomes more prevalent, there is going to be an opportunity for independent bands that don’t have label money for support to distinguish themselves by hyping that fact that this product was entirely made by humans.
 
jp_nyc said:
William Gibson’s novel Idoru predicted industry generated stars in 1996. It has an AI generated Japanese pop star referred to as an idoru. It’s a great book if you like pre-smartphone era cyberpunk.

I think we’ll see artists who can’t write wiped out. The labels won’t need people like Katy Perry, Rihanna, or Beyonce to come in and sing songs that the AI wrote. There will be Idoru to appear in music videos instead. It will be interesting to see what happens to arena and stadium concerts. They might just disappear when the superstars don’t have bodies. Or they’ll turn into modern dance ensemble performances, which is what a lot of the pop stars who don’t sing live have been doing since the 1980s. This could be a huge moneymaker for record labels who can put on tours themselves and keep all the money.

A small numbers of writers who can actually write new stuff to train AI on will remain relevant even if they aren’t allowed to record and perform their songs. The next generation of Taylor Swifts, Lady Gagas, and Missy Elliots will be writing stuff for the AIs.

And I think some genres will resist AI because the listeners just don’t accept big label music anyway. Black metal, doom metal, and punk fans aren’t going to pay attention to the AI world. They’ll keep buying albums from independent bands that only release their music on Bandcamp.
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I agree. I tried to say something similar in my post up above, about pop stars being hit the hardest, but you said it way better than me.

Regarding Idoru, Japan already has a computer-generated pop star already with Hatsune Miku. She pre-dates AI by several years and manages to fill arenas with CGI/hologram concerts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsune_Miku

hero
 
My favorite part of the video is when he is like oh you don't own a million dollars worth of vintage amps and studio equipment like me? Then you don't care about what is real or not. I'm then going to make another huge leap from this assumption to you being an idiot who can't tell the difference between an AI and a person.
 
shoeless said:
I agree. I tried to say something similar in my post up above, about pop stars being hit the hardest, but you said it way better than me.

Regarding Idoru, Japan already has a computer-generated pop star already with Hatsune Miku. She pre-dates AI by several years and manages to fill arenas with CGI/hologram concerts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsune_Miku

hero
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How do you go from imitation of original artists to new ones. How does AI create a new 'fake' artist (not just cartoons/visual art we've already seen for 100 years)? None exist as examples. All examples of AI art are things that depend on the existing artist. It's not an apathy about what's real, but a likeness to what is real. I've said before that stacking one assumption/hypothetical on another generally leads to bad predictions. Even if it seems 'correct' logically.

How do the labels make money if they have no rights to the music nor control over scarcity? AI is not monolithic, so you can always find some use for it. (Another fallacy is assuming one type of AI entails another). But the sense in which we are talking about makes no sense to them. Most of this stuff exists in a legal grey area in the same way NFTs and crypto currency do. People make predictions about them replacing the dollar. But without any real world necessity or examples. It's just based on the idea that technology is progress so it must be true. And in the minds of true believers it always will be.
 
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