I been pluckin on the ol banjo lately

Pine Apple Slim

Pine Apple Slim

Armchair Expert
My little Gold Tone CC-100 open back thats been hanging on the wall all lonesome for several years. Started plinking around with no picks, trying some clawhammer(which I suck at) along with some 3 finger/2 finger things, tried sawmill tuning, Going for that real old timey spooky sound.

But I cant leave well enough alone so of course Ive got some mods planned.
Ordered a couple of different classical string sets from Aquilla and Labella to check out, trying to find something that will require no or very little modification to the nut slots.
Ordered a bridge designed for gut/nylon strings.

Will prob order a different head than the standard coated Remo Weatherking on it, something less noisy and plunkier, once I decide which one.
I might even pull the frets from the 18th on up and do a gentle frailing scoop to almost the depth of the fingerboard.
@Gary Blanchard any recommendations for a head?
I realize my technique needs improvement but Id like a more trad sounding head that dosnt sound as much like Im playing a snare drum with brushes. lol.
 
Andrew Sak said:
Old timey spooky sounding banjo. That sounds fun.
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Experimented a bit with sawmill tuning, or mountain modal, mountain minor, G modal, its got a lot of names. Ive never really experimented with alternative tunings other than the Pete Seeger C tuning in his classic "How to Play the 5str Banjo" book, or for "Home Sweet Home" in the Scruggs book. That one goes gCGBD and was Seegars standard tuning, tuned down low of course on his long neck banjo.

"Sawmill" goes gDGCD, raising the B string up to a C. Combined with the F natural note on the D strings at the 3rd fret you get some of that haunting quality. Is not really a minor tuning, from a theory perspective its more like a Gsus4. But that ringing sus4 on the 2nd string adds a ringing sympathetic dissonance even if you dont play it, and when your throw in those flat 7ths it gives you a minor"ish" etherial spooky quality.
 
Pine Apple Slim said:
Experimented a bit with sawmill tuning, or mountain modal, mountain minor, G modal, its got a lot of names. Ive never really experimented with alternative tunings other than the Pete Seeger C tuning in his classic "How to Play the 5str Banjo" book, or for "Home Sweet Home" in the Scruggs book. That one goes gCGBD and was Seegars standard tuning, tuned down low of course on his long neck banjo.

"Sawmill" goes gDGCD, raising the B string up to a C. Combined with the F natural note on the D strings at the 3rd fret you get some of that haunting quality. Is not really a minor tuning, from a theory perspective its more like a Gsus4. But that ringing sus4 on the 2nd string adds a ringing sympathetic dissonance even if you dont play it, and when your throw in those flat 7ths it gives you a minor"ish" etherial spooky quality.
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I wouldn't mind buying one. Nothing else sounds like a banjo.
 
Andrew Sak said:
I wouldn't mind buying one. Nothing else sounds like a banjo.
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I spent many years as a dedicated bluegrasser so naturally I had to experiment with all those instruments. My banjo journey started in the early 1980s on a borrowed composite rim no name cheapo with a non geared 5th peg. Had to give it back after a few months but I got pretty good with a bare 2 finger approach that I kinda made up on my own. Since I couldn't afford lessons and there was no internet all I could do was just sing those old folk songs I knew and try to make it work. My next serious period was when I got the Gold Tone around 2003 and went whole hog on 3 finger bluegrass with picks, eventually graduating to a Gibson Mastertone which I still own. But then I moved here where there wasn't a decent bluegrass scene and I couldn't find anybody to play with. No professional quality pickers to play bass for and no amateurs willing to play rhythm to my banjo picking. So the 5str was basically retired and I went back to elec guitar mostly. Getting a gig or finding a jam on elec guitar was much easier.
But that little open back hanging on the wall has haunted me to the point where I had to pick it up again and try to recover some of that weird style I developed way back when I didnt know what I was doing. After all these yrs I came to realize it was a more authentic and real old timey way of playing rather than going by the "books"
IF you get a banjo it would behove you to try to decide what kind of music you want out of it. Theres all different kinds. Theres 6str banjos played like a guitar, great for blues. Theres 4strings in different scale lengths used for everything from ragtime and jazz to Irish music. The original slave instruments were fretless gourds strung with gut, with different numbers of strings but they always had the short thumb string like a modern 5str. These evolved into the 19th century "minstrel" style, still fretless and gut but wooden rims. These developed into to modern banjo styles first with gut then steel strings. Im trying for as archaic a sound as I can get with the modern style 5str I own.
 
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Gary Blanchard said:
I prefer the Fiberskin head for my banjo.

I love mountain modal tuning; I use it on two songs on my folk roots of the Grateful Dead album. Both Shady Grove and Cold Rain and Snow sound great in that tuning.
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Man I need to work up Cold Rain and Snow!
Have you ever used nylon strings with fiberskin? I’m afraid it might be too dark combined with nylon.
 
Pine Apple Slim said:
Man I need to work up Cold Rain and Snow!
Have you ever used nylon strings with fiberskin? I’m afraid it might be too dark combined with nylon.
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I wound up ordering a Remo Renaissance. I was afraid Fiberskin would be too dark with nylon strings and bare fingers.
Also it’s supposed to have a smoother surface without the raspy noise of a frosted head when you drag your fingers across it, which was the main thing that was annoying me.
If it proves too bright then I’ll go with a Fiberskin. Thanks for the feedback!
 
Sorry, I lost a day yesterday. I tend to use bare fingers but never tried nylon strings on a banjo. I am not sure how the Fiberskin head would sound with nylon. Keep me posted on your experiences.
 
@Gary Blanchard -I'm having a bit of a breakthrough today. I've always found the basic CH/frailing/old time rhythm, the bumditty, to be very difficult. Its 3 notes where there should be 4, at least to my ear. One-anda, Two-anda, with that first note being longer than the other 2. Its much more natural for me to smooth out that sound into 4 notes of equal length. Bumpaditty. One-e-and-a Two-e-and-a. This pattern falls much easier into a two or 3 finger up picking approach than it does into a traditional downstroke CH way of playing. Its more of a roll and I keep time using this basic rhythm much better.
Once I figure out it was the bumditty pattern all the "experts" show you was my problem I just said screw it Im gonna play my way, and I started concentrating on unpicking with bumpaditty as my basic fall back rhythm.. At first I was using just thumb and index and achoring the rest of my right hand, like the old time 2 finger "experts" on YouTube tell you to do. That works but still feels kinda unatural and restricting since I worked so long at 3 finger Scruggs style.
So I tried anchoring my RH the same way I do in Scruggs style, just my pinky anchored, the ring finger just floating, the middle finger dedicated to the 1st string, and using the first finger to sometimes play notes on the 2nd string, but mostly the first finger is just kinda sticking out pointing towards the neck. This lets me throw in a 3 finger roll of sorts with the index when it feels right but also drop the thumb down to the second string for power and emphasis without the index finger getting in the way and cluttering things up. An added bonus is the index is freed up for a downstroke brush when the spirit moves. And If I switch over to CH in the middle of a tune for some variety, going back my hand falls back naturally into my comfortable Scruggs style hand position, and a lot of that extraneous scraping noise on the head is practically eliminated.
Amazingly, using this technique I pulled off an improvised version of Rain and Snow almost effortlessly on first try, and I wasn't even tuned to Sawmill, just reg ol G.
Its taken me a few days, but I think I've figured out a way to play in an old time style thats unique to me and just feels right.
Now Im really stoked to get those ol guts on there for some really archaic sounding thump!
 
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Pine Apple Slim said:
@Gary Blanchard -I'm having a bit of a breakthrough today. I've always found the basic CH/frailing/old time rhythm, the bumditty, to be very difficult. Its 3 notes where there should be 4, at least to my ear. One-anda, Two-anda, with that first note being longer than the other 2. Its much more natural for me to smooth out that sound into 4 notes of equal length. Bumpaditty. One-e-and-a Two-e-and-a. This pattern falls much easier into a two or 3 finger up picking approach than it does into a traditional downstroke CH way of playing. Its more of a roll and I keep time using this basic rhythm much better.
Once I figure out it was the bumditty pattern all the "experts" show you was my problem I just said screw it Im gonna play my way, and I started concentrating on unpicking with bumpaditty as my basic fall back rhythm.. At first I was using just thumb and index and achoring the rest of my right hand, like the old time 2 finger "experts" on YouTube tell you to do. That works but still feels kinda unatural and restricting since I worked so long at 3 finger Scruggs style.
So I tried anchoring my RH the same way I do in Scruggs style, just my pinky anchored, the ring finger just floating, the middle finger dedicated to the 1st string, and using the first finger to sometimes play notes on the 2nd string, but mostly the first finger is just kinda sticking out pointing towards the neck. This lets me throw in a 3 finger roll of sorts with the index when it feels right but also drop the thumb down to the second string for power and emphasis without the index finger getting in the way and cluttering things up. An added bonus is the index is freed up for a downstroke brush when the spirit moves. And If I switch over to CH in the middle of a tune for some variety, going back my hand falls back naturally into my comfortable Scruggs style hand position, and a lot of that extraneous scraping noise on the head is practically eliminated.
Amazingly, using this technique I pulled off an improvised version of Rain and Snow almost effortlessly on first try, and I wasn't even tuned to Sawmill, just reg ol G.
Its taken me a few days, but I think I've figured out a way to play in an old time style thats unique to me and just feels right.
Now Im really stoked to get those ol guts on there for some really archaic sounding thump!
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I have my own unique way of playing banjo. It isn't pretty, but it works. I don't apologize for it.
 
More good progress today!
Got my Labellas and my JW Hooks bridge on, tuned up to a F(G tuning down a step), let em settle in, and spent an hr or two with it. Amazing the volume I got just barely playing, super soft and easy does it.
I really like the loosey goosey feel and the response of the nylon.

They sent my new head to the wrong address. Oh well, I guess It will show up someday. I'll try it out at some point but after today I'm in no hurry.
A few days practice is making a huge difference and I've just about eliminated the head noise problem anyway.

Best news is I'm finally getting a decent Clawhammer going albeit in a soft & pretty quiet & relaxed manner. Strummed and sang a few simple familiar tunes at a purposely lazy tempo- Mt Dew, Rosa Lee McFall, Worried Man Blues. After a while I was getting thru them without a train wreck, sounding pretty clean and without overbearing head noise. Really concentrated on getting that first note of the beat clean and clear and kinda letting the and-a just happen. Yea, Music! Simple and stupid, but pretty solid, even if at a slow and lazy speed. A few melody notes, hammer-ons and pull-offs even started popping out on their own without thinking much about it.
In the middle of the tunes I tried switching over to 2 and/or 3 finger thumb lead and taking a break, and all the bluegrass licks are still there. Bare fingers seem to pick easier and smoother on the nylon vs steel. Steel seemed to drag pickin w/ bare fingers. The nylons just glide real smooth like they were made for bare fingers, cause they are I guess, duh.
I transitioned successfully back to CH to sing without dropping the beat, all rite!
 
2 weeks with the banjo has gotten me fired up to play again. I only quit playing banjo and fiddle around 2008-9 out of boredom and nobody to jam with.
I pulled out the Gibson, cleaned her up, put on the fingerpicks, and started trying to bring back my bluegrass chops from back then. After 30 min or an hr they started to come back...along with all the little annoyances and shortcomings in my technique.
So I started looking around for instructors. I need a few lessons to focus me and make me practice.
I found a guy about 20 miles away and went and gave him a try yesterday. Hes mainly a 3 finger bluegrass guy and was reluctant to get into clawhammer, but he does teach fiddle.
He identified a big problem I was having with 3 finger that was slowing mw down and holding me back. In Scruggs style there are many time when you come out of a roll where its critical to use the first finger on the middle G string, but I have a tendency to drop my thumb there instead. This cuts the flow and is limiting my BPM. So he said I need to train that finger. Good. A problem identified and I have a goal and a way forward.
He gave me 2-3 dead simple tunes to practice using that finger instead of the thumb at those critical junctures.
I paid him for a month. Since I paid up front Im incentivized. If Im diligent Im pretty confident my bluegrass playing will be back with a vengeance and much improved in a month or two. Plus as a bonus it should greatly improv my right hand work on the pedal steel and dobro.
If this little effort pays off like I think it will, then Im gonna switch over to fiddle and go thru the same process.
Im also hoping it will be an opportunity to meet some other "pickers" on the journey to start a regular jam with. I really miss playing bluegrass and old time music and if I can find some people to play with the whole effort will be worth it to me.
 
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Also I ordered this minstrel banjo kit.
https://carverbanjos.com/product/minstrel-banjo-kit-new-steambent-rim/
It should arrive in about 3 weeks. He only builds the kits as they are ordered. Putting it together is only an hr or two process, but depending on the time taken sanding and finishing it could take 3-4 days to come out with something really nice. Then I will have something fretless with "guts" and a deeper tone to play and I can put my little open back to normal steel strings and regular pitched G tuning.
 
The bluegrass 3 finger is cleaning up nicely. Getting that index finger comfortable with leading, even on the 4th string.
Still going really slow with metronome and being very precise. It’s paying off, even though I’m only getting in about 30 min a day on 3 finger because I’m trying to practice clawhammer and fiddle every day as well.
I’ve finally gotten comfortable with the clawhammer down stroke strum. Getting much more accurate and head noise is greatly decreased. I’ve settled on my index as my main striking finger, I seem to be be more accurate with it plus it has a stronger nail than my middle finger. I’m starting to pick up some speed and get in more melody vs pure strumming, more in the “Round Peak” way of playing. I even managed to get in a “drop thumb” lick when i really get in the “zone”.
idk what’s gotten into me but I seem to be focused on getting back to more old timey acoustic music. I still don’t have anybody convenient to play it with, but I really miss it. It was my main deal for years even tho I was mostly a guitar and bass guy. I figure if I can stick with this schedule of at least an hr a day each on banjo and fiddle, practicing with purpose and diligence, I will be ready to hit some good festivals next summer.
I just hope I can keep up the motivation.
 
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Kit went together super easy. Spent a day or 2 on finish. Hardest part was tacking on the head but it went well.
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Gary Blanchard said:
That is really cool. I have considered doing this myself, but figured I lack the skills to do it right.
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It was super easy if you can operate a screwdriver. All parts fit together with absolutely no "tweaking" required. The hardest part was tacking on the head but it wasn't really all that bad. Carver has an easy to follow step by step video.
I spent a couple of days sanding and finishing then assembled the thing in under an hr.
 
Pine Apple Slim said:
It was super easy if you can operate a screwdriver. All parts fit together with absolutely no "tweaking" required. The hardest part was tacking on the head but it wasn't really all that bad. Carver has an easy to follow step by step video.
I spent a couple of days sanding and finishing then assembled the thing in under an hr.
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I may consider this once I am through with the chemo. It could be a nice reward for going through the past months.
 
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