Yes, but as a trademark.
Their game now is that, as an artistic expression, it should have copyright.
Fender’s lawyers go to war!
- Thread starter jp_nyc
- Start date
Their game now is that, as an artistic expression, it should have copyright.
Knox in Box
Rustbelt refugee.
.....Dude, that band name is punk as fuck!!!! And topical too!!!
I need to trade in gear on the next purchase, so the GCs near me are where I am focusing. The last thing I need right now is an addition to the collection.
That said, in what may the problem Fender is going after the PRS Silver Sky SE moved up on the list. When I saw Phil McKnight's video on the SE factory tour I realized how good the SEs now are.
Peen Simmons
Let’s Get Obtuse!
I'm really happy with my PRS DGT SE.
Bob411
thrumming with potential
If you want a new Silver Sky, I would shit or, get off the pot. PRS may decide it just makes financial sense to not fight it.
PRS went up against Gibson. Paul likes to fight so I don't think they'll cave.
That said I am looking at used, and I really want a HSS or HH Maple fretboard. I am just getting back into this and once I get to the point where I am ready to play with other people, something like this is my reward.
Peen Simmons
Let’s Get Obtuse!
I suspect this is the new normal in guitar and probably most things. CNC manufacturing, offshoring, AI, the dominance of “luxury” as a multi-tiered category (see that recent AP/Swatch collab shitshow) and multiple other factors means “intellectual property” and brand integrity is the name of the game.
When a “standard” or introductory Fender is made in the same Indonesian OEM facility of the same timber-of-the-week materials and shipped in the same sea container as the Amazon knockoff that sells at 50% of retail, you’ve got to do something to retain/protect shareholder value.
We’re suffering through a moment of insane product glut across categories in “The West” while also wrangling massive inflation. Supply/demand isn’t really what’s driving pricing. The internet has fueled hyper consumerism to the point where everyone is a hoarder. And yet necessities like housing and healthcare and energy and education and clean air/water and increasingly food is out of reach—but everyone still has infinite stuff.
So Fender probably knows that there’s no real money in producing three good-to-great versions of each of their flagship models and duking it out in the market with their direct competitors. They have to consolidate the entire market and run a little bolt on monopoly and get people subscribed to a whole vertically integrated ecosystem. Only then will only an officially licensed Stratocaster-flavored guitar product be good enough. Play authentic. Thus proclaimeth St. Leo.
I’ve been fancy guitar shopping for a few months, and the primary consideration I’ve given Fender products has been resale value—and fuck Fender given this situation and I’ll take the potential future hit out of pure spite now. I’m pretty relieved I didn’t give them money out of convenience /boredom/habit.
When a “standard” or introductory Fender is made in the same Indonesian OEM facility of the same timber-of-the-week materials and shipped in the same sea container as the Amazon knockoff that sells at 50% of retail, you’ve got to do something to retain/protect shareholder value.
We’re suffering through a moment of insane product glut across categories in “The West” while also wrangling massive inflation. Supply/demand isn’t really what’s driving pricing. The internet has fueled hyper consumerism to the point where everyone is a hoarder. And yet necessities like housing and healthcare and energy and education and clean air/water and increasingly food is out of reach—but everyone still has infinite stuff.
So Fender probably knows that there’s no real money in producing three good-to-great versions of each of their flagship models and duking it out in the market with their direct competitors. They have to consolidate the entire market and run a little bolt on monopoly and get people subscribed to a whole vertically integrated ecosystem. Only then will only an officially licensed Stratocaster-flavored guitar product be good enough. Play authentic. Thus proclaimeth St. Leo.
I’ve been fancy guitar shopping for a few months, and the primary consideration I’ve given Fender products has been resale value—and fuck Fender given this situation and I’ll take the potential future hit out of pure spite now. I’m pretty relieved I didn’t give them money out of convenience /boredom/habit.
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TomcatMF
Vetteless
Spot on.
I think the musical instrument market is saturated at this point. They have been building these things since the 50's, and there's likely far more supply than actual demand. Plus I don't know too many 15 year olds that have $2K to plunk down on a guitar, and likely most 15 year olds these days aren't interested anyway. The market is saturated, and people don't have that kind of diposable income to warrant buying these high ticket items.
Fender, and many other businesses doing this IP thing are fighting for survial because the tradition business model no longer works, and they are hemoraging profits. It reminds me of the RIAA when sharing music over the web became a big thing, it broke their highly profitable business model so they put up a fight to preserve it, instead of trying to adapt to the changing environment.
In a way the Internet has really managed to wipe out an entire way of life and doing business that was so common throughout the 20th century.
Then add the post-pandemic business culture of manufactured scarcity to drive up prices of everything (they learned from Covid that they could make more money by keeping availability low) we are all getting squeezed to the point that optional purchases are no longer a consideration when we have to take out a mortgage to fill our gas tanks and buy eggs.
Pine Apple Slim
Armchair Expert
I dont know how a mnf of new guitars can make a profit without monopolization and vertical integration.
That said, who says they deserve a profit just because they make a guitar?
Theres way more used Stratocasters out there already than people who want to play a Stratocaster.
Same with just about every other standard model of guitar.
In this environment do we really need new ones?
That said, who says they deserve a profit just because they make a guitar?
Theres way more used Stratocasters out there already than people who want to play a Stratocaster.
Same with just about every other standard model of guitar.
In this environment do we really need new ones?
DinoMikeSr
I have the box
McNight's Cort factory tour video reported they make over 1 million guitars a year. That amazes me.
Google PRS made in US each year comes back at 12,000
Google Gibson made in the US each year comes back at 100,000
Google Fender made in the US each year comes back at 100,000
Peen Simmons
Let’s Get Obtuse!
I asked AI to look into this because I didn’t care enough to do the work myself, but…
Using the earlier estimates and the active-player estimate of roughly 25–30 million U.S. guitar players, you can get a rough “guitars added per player per year” number.
Estimated U.S. market deliveries:
And that tracks with industry observations that committed guitarists tend to accumulate multiple instruments over time rather than replacing them one-for-one.
So…
If Fender have become evil monsters is it because the fine gear hoarders of this forum and places like TGP are buying too many guitars and encouraging bad behavior OR is it because there are slackers (presumably not on internet guitars forums) not buying enough guitars?
Either way…WTF?!? INAPPROPRIATE!!! FUCK THIS FORUM.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become a mystixboi.
Two weeks.
Using the earlier estimates and the active-player estimate of roughly 25–30 million U.S. guitar players, you can get a rough “guitars added per player per year” number.
Estimated U.S. market deliveries:
- Fender: ~350,000–800,000 guitars/year in the U.S.
- Gibson: ~90,000–180,000 guitars/year in the U.S.
- Fender: about 0.012–0.032 guitars per active player per year
- Gibson: about 0.003–0.007 guitars per active player per year
- Combined: roughly 0.015–0.039 guitars per player per year
- Fender is producing roughly 1 guitar annually for every 31–83 active U.S. players
- Gibson is producing roughly 1 guitar annually for every 140–330 active U.S. players
- Together: around 1 Fender or Gibson guitar for every 26–67 active players each year
And that tracks with industry observations that committed guitarists tend to accumulate multiple instruments over time rather than replacing them one-for-one.
So…
If Fender have become evil monsters is it because the fine gear hoarders of this forum and places like TGP are buying too many guitars and encouraging bad behavior OR is it because there are slackers (presumably not on internet guitars forums) not buying enough guitars?
Either way…WTF?!? INAPPROPRIATE!!! FUCK THIS FORUM.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become a mystixboi.
Two weeks.
Bob411
thrumming with potential
Wow, I would of guessed even 1 million would be too high.
shoeless
Riffin'
That's a lot of Estebans.
jrockbridge
Stealing Your Riffs
They went after PRS today.
Pine Apple Slim
Armchair Expert
I've never been a fan but yea, Im tempted to get a PRS just because FU FIMC.
shoeless
Riffin'
Well, it appears to be official.
www.guitarworld.com
If Gibson couldn't beat PRS, I doubt Fender will. Folks have been copying Strats and Teles for so long now, hard to imagine a court ruling against PRS, especially since they use their own signature headstock instead of the Fender style 6-on-a-side.
It is puzzling why Fender is doing this. What do they hope to gain? Folks that are looking to buy a $100 Chinese Strat copy are not going to pony up $500 for Squire. They'll just get something else.
“The company disagrees with Fender’s assessment”: PRS has been hit by a cease-and-desist from Fender – bringing John Mayer’s Silver Sky into the center of the S-style legal dispute
This has now become the highest-profile case of the entire dispute, and could well be one of the most hotly contested
If Gibson couldn't beat PRS, I doubt Fender will. Folks have been copying Strats and Teles for so long now, hard to imagine a court ruling against PRS, especially since they use their own signature headstock instead of the Fender style 6-on-a-side.
It is puzzling why Fender is doing this. What do they hope to gain? Folks that are looking to buy a $100 Chinese Strat copy are not going to pony up $500 for Squire. They'll just get something else.