Are you a boutique person?

[Modern Saint]

Have you ever built a point-to-point amp? I have. It's no picnic. There's labor involved.

 

[Peeker]

I'd never buy a fancy-ass amp like that, barring a lotto win.
but I would love to have a bass made just for me, someday

 

[shoeless]

I'm a cheap bastard and a hobbyist musician, so no. I still have my first Norlin era Gibson and a silver face Twin Reverb from back in the day...but somehow I don't think those qualify as boutique.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

I'm a cheap bastard and a hobbyist musician, so no. I still have my first Norlin era Gibson and a silver face Twin Reverb from back in the day...but somehow I don't think those qualify as boutique.

And yet, Norlin era guitars are skyrocketing in price and silver face amps were built to much higher standard than today's production amps.

 

[bsman]

Here ya' go: https://www.facebook.com/bespokeguitars

 

[OGG]

To each their own.

Most of my stuff is off the rack and does exactly what I ask of it.

I don't deny that some boutique gear is superior, but when I see $2k overdrive pedals, I think snake oil.

 

[Gary Blanchard]

To each their own.

Most of my stuff is off the rack and does exactly what I ask of it.

I don't deny that some boutique gear is superior, but when I see $2k overdrive pedals, I think snake oil.

I so agree. What will a $2k overdrive pedal do that a $1 1/2k pedal won't?

 

[shoeless]

And yet, Norlin era guitars are skyrocketing in price and silver face amps were built to much higher standard than today's production amps.

I guess it's gone full circle then. When I bought them back in the 80's, they were frowned upon and I could afford them because I'm a cheap bastard. Who knew they'd eventually be considered boutique?

 

[Mark Wein]

I guess it's gone full circle then. When I bought them back in the 80's, they were frowned upon and I could afford them because I'm a cheap bastard. Who knew they'd eventually be considered boutique?

I love my Silverface Deluxe Reverb. And I think my 1979 "The Paul" is considered Norlin-era so there you go

 

[Lerxst]

Is vintage and boutique the same thing now?

 

[Mark Wein]

Is vintage and boutique the same thing now?

I don' think so. "Boutique" to me sounds like new, high end gear made in smaller numbers. Doesn't always mean better.

Vintage ends up meaning "older than the mid-70's" to me and also doesn't necessarily mean "better" either. At least not in the way it did to me in the early to mid 1990s.

 

[bsman]

I am definitely a boutique person. I was hand-wired, point-to-point, and I'm one of a kind!

 

[speakerjones]

I don't consider myself a boutique guy, but I do own some boutique gear. My main amp is boutique (Valvetech Hayseed 30). I have a couple of boutique guitars and a handful of boutique pedals. Whatever gets the job done. I'm not afraid to pay a little more for quality when it counts, and would rather support small businesses anyway.

 

[Denverdave]

Well - according to the manufacturer, my amp was "designed to produce a powerful "boutique" amp tone in an affordable and light weight package." So maybe I am a boutique person. As long as it's affordable and light weight of course.

 

[Tig]

Well - according to the manufacturer, my amp was "designed to produce a powerful "boutique" amp tone in an affordable and light weight package." So maybe I am a boutique person. As long as it's affordable and light weight of course.

You snoot!

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

I don' think so. "Boutique" to me sounds like new, high end gear made in smaller numbers. Doesn't always mean better.

Vintage ends up meaning "older than the mid-70's" to me and also doesn't necessarily mean "better" either. At least not in the way it did to me in the early to mid 1990s.

right. all i'm saying is that the boutique companies are all about "building em like they used to", and charging for the privilege. i will never tell you that my Allen is a better amp than a Silverface Vibrolux. but the fact that it's 30 years younger means i don't have to deal with reliability issues today.

 

[Eminence_Front]

right. all i'm saying is that the boutique companies are all about "building em like they used to", and charging for the privilege. i will never tell you that my Allen is a better amp than a Silverface Vibrolux. but the fact that it's 30 years younger means i don't have to deal with reliability issues today.

^^ 100% right. F'in A, my thought exactly.


I think that's really the brass-tacks of it.


Buying high-end (price wise) is no different than getting that first big raise and replacing the car you don't need to replace with a new fancy shmancy import job. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's just pissing away money. There's always a plus and minus, it just all depends on what your individual tolerance is. I think it's funny when you see a $3,000 amp with 14 effects in the chain, though. How many people demo a new amp with a full accoutrement of effects ? And does it sound any different once the signal's been bastardized, than say, an off the rack Fender or Marshall ?


Some guys regardless of clout, or income or whatever, would scoff at buying Vintage (usually defined as being 30+ years old.) and pumping money into it, to return it to proper specs. Just like a lot of people would scoff at dumping $2k - $3k on a new engine or tranny for an otherwise serviceable car. But those same guys will go buy a Matchless, Dr. Z, Suhr, etc. and have no qualms about dropping thousands on name brand, high end "new" gear. The cost, to support, maintain, and upkeep the gear is going to be within a few bucks of each other. I'm sure Mark's put plenty of money into his old deluxe. And probably over the next 25 years, he'll put plenty of dough into that Badger.


Frankly, Mass-Produced in 1972 isn't the same as mass-produced now. All this nonsense about circuit board vs. P2P, etc. is just ludicrous. All era and makes of gear have their deficiencies, it's all about "the specimen". I would argue however that the tolerances are tighter now, much tighter in fact, than in 1972. So if you get something that's shit, chances are it's cousins are going to be +/- 1-2% within the range of "Shit".


One thing to remember is that you're coming into a generation where so many things have been automated, and computerized, that you will continue to lose access to the craftsmen to repair, tune, and enhance old hand made circuitry. So if in previous generations you bred 5 new techs for every 1 old timer, now you're getting 2 or 3, and it will continue to diminish. Just like nursing, and other skilled professions.

This will continue to drive the price up, of those "boutique" brands, and the Vintage will pull away even faster. I'm fairly certain the market for fixed-replacement or "FRU" based manufacturing will still be king, simply due to economy of scale. I mean, eventually The Bruce Egnaters of the world are going to wanna retire their blistered fingertips and spend some of that $$$...

If I was a tinkerer, which I am, the Vintage route would be very stimulating to the inner wing nut in me. On the other hand, if I was a professional, income producing musician, I think I'd have a hard time putting my faith and livelihood in something that's 40 years old.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

^^ 100% right. F'in A, my thought exactly.


I think that's really the brass-tacks of it.


Buying high-end (price wise) is no different than getting that first big raise and replacing the car you don't need to replace with a new fancy shmancy import job. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's just pissing away money. There's always a plus and minus, it just all depends on what your individual tolerance is. I think it's funny when you see a $3,000 amp with 14 effects in the chain, though. How many people demo a new amp with a full accoutrement of effects ? And does it sound any different once the signal's been bastardized, than say, an off the rack Fender or Marshall ?


Some guys regardless of clout, or income or whatever, would scoff at buying Vintage (usually defined as being 30+ years old.) and pumping money into it, to return it to proper specs. Just like a lot of people would scoff at dumping $2k - $3k on a new engine or tranny for an otherwise serviceable car. But those same guys will go buy a Matchless, Dr. Z, Suhr, etc. and have no qualms about dropping thousands on name brand, high end "new" gear. The cost, to support, maintain, and upkeep the gear is going to be within a few bucks of each other. I'm sure Mark's put plenty of money into his old deluxe. And probably over the next 25 years, he'll put plenty of dough into that Badger.


Frankly, Mass-Produced in 1972 isn't the same as mass-produced now. All this nonsense about circuit board vs. P2P, etc. is just ludicrous. All era and makes of gear have their deficiencies, it's all about "the specimen". I would argue however that the tolerances are tighter now, much tighter in fact, than in 1972. So if you get something that's shit, chances are it's cousins are going to be +/- 1-2% within the range of "Shit".


One thing to remember is that you're coming into a generation where so many things have been automated, and computerized, that you will continue to lose access to the craftsmen to repair, tune, and enhance old hand made circuitry. So if in previous generations you bred 5 new techs for every 1 old timer, now you're getting 2 or 3, and it will continue to diminish. Just like nursing, and other skilled professions.

This will continue to drive the price up, of those "boutique" brands, and the Vintage will pull away even faster. I'm fairly certain the market for fixed-replacement or "FRU" based manufacturing will still be king, simply due to economy of scale. I mean, eventually The Bruce Egnaters of the world are going to wanna retire their blistered fingertips and spend some of that $$$...

If I was a tinkerer, which I am, the Vintage route would be very stimulating to the inner wing nut in me. On the other hand, if I was a professional, income producing musician, I think I'd have a hard time putting my faith and livelihood in something that's 40 years old.

see, that's not what i meant at all.

a Silverface Fender Deluxe Reverb was made better than the current Deluxe Reverb Reissue. it's not about PCB vs turret board, or even MIA vs MIM. it's about component quality. the parts that make up today's production amps aren't as durable as the old parts. that durability is what most boutique equipment is trying to capture. that much of it is grossly overpriced or gaudy for no good reason is a completely separate issue.

as for the pedal thing, that's an over-generalization of reality that doesn't actually exist in the real world.

 

[parrotheada1a]

OTOH, what are you getting with modern production amplifiers? PC mounted pots and switches, underpowered transformers, low value components, crappy speakers and tubes, and as many production units as the line can cough out that day.

so it's either overpay for handbuilt gear that 30 years ago would have been nothing special, or put aftermarket upgrades into production amps and never get your money back. its a lose/lose situation.

I kinda disagree on certain parts of your post, and here's why. The sound & tone of handbuilt gear from 40+ years ago is seemingly what players want today. Nothing special 40+ years ago was creating the tone that players might emulate today. Some of those players can pay big bucks for it. Mebbe not you or me, but the market is there. Old Marshall & Fender amps, vintage pedals, and old guitars all command insane prices if you want to buy them. Gear made today is almost always driven by the bottom line of profit. Most companies don't even care about resale value because they only make a profit on what they initially sell an item for.

You may buy a certain brand of product, only to find that all you have is the brand.... not sound, not design, nor even build quality. I can think of one pedal mfr still in business (I'll not mention a name to protect the guilty) who has bought out the designs/ patents/ names of many of their old competitors. Suffice to say that after many years of ''upgrades'' those old products no longer sound anywhere near close to the originals.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

I kinda disagree on certain parts of your post, and here's why. The sound & tone of handbuilt gear from 40+ years ago is seemingly what players want today. Nothing special 40+ years ago was creating the tone that players might emulate today. Some of those players can pay big bucks for it. Mebbe not you or me, but the market is there. Old Marshall & Fender amps, vintage pedals, and old guitars all command insane prices if you want to buy them. Gear made today is almost always driven by the bottom line of profit. Most companies don't even care about resale value because they only make a profit on what they initially sell an item for.

You may buy a certain brand of product, only to find that all you have is the brand.... not sound, not design, nor even build quality. I can think of one pedal mfr still in business (I'll not mention a name to protect the guilty) who has bought out the designs/ patents/ names of many of their old competitors. Suffice to say that after many years of ''upgrades'' those old products no longer sound anywhere near close to the originals.

i agree with everything here. i'm confused on what you disagree about.