Insight into why those "Best fill-in-the-blank Lists" always suck

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Riffin'
You know what I mean, those lists that publications love to print, that never get it right and leave some icon off the list. I know Beato rubs a lot of folks the wrong way, but I have to agree with him that the NY Times Ivy League list makers are a bunch of pretentious cork sniffers.

 
Boy, that take on Billy Joel man,.....

"....only can write 1, maybe 1.5 types of song well..." while having multiple rappers on the list is incredible.
 
Knox in Box said:
Boy, that take on Billy Joel man,.....

"....only can write 1, maybe 1.5 types of song well..." while having multiple rappers on the list is incredible.
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That is a savage (and not inaccurate) burn on Mr. Joel. It’s mean, but I’ll allow it.

Anyway, these lists are JOURNALISM done by JOURNALISTS to advance an editorial position/spark discussion/reframe the debate. They’re not rules/law/etc. Canon debates are a thing and they were all rage when I was an English undergrad in the 1990s. The meta question is “why do we value what we claim to value and who decides?”

Do I think Taylor Swift is a better songwriter than John Darnielle? No. But I understand what the list is doing so I’m not angry. I get why Bad Bunny is on the list. I get why Young Thug is on the list…to make things less old/establishment and to make the case for genres not always credited as having good writing.

It’s a provocative (?) list that is like a last little gasp of poptimism before the flood. It doesn’t read as pretentious at all. Stephen Merritt is the only “songwriter’s/critic’s pick” selection that seems particularly wink nudge. And it’s deserved. He’s the guy on the list of all the songwriting freaks. It was gonna be him of Darnielle.

It’s frankly impressive/wild how these lists still feel like Bob Dylan and everybody else.
 
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Here’s the list if we wish to bitch.

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I’m not going to watch it. I don’t care what critics think about music, movies, plays, art, etc. And, I don’t care what Beato thinks about some critic’s opinion. I know what I like.

I find audience ratings of movies and tv helpful. It’s not a guarantee that I’ll like something most others enjoy, but it helps me avoid things I’ll most likely hate. Conversely, if a critic likes a movie or tv show, it’s random and useless to me, since their agendas don’t necessarily align with what I consider entertainment value.

For music, I like to listen and make my own determination. Critic lists are background noise. Same with opinions of opinions.
 
Seriously, I’m not sure how “pretentious” or “elitist” would be one’s objections here. This list is mostly massive pop stars and the writers of huge hits. Fucking Mariah Carey is on the list.

Dylan has a Nobel Price and Kendrick has a Pulitzer, but neither of those dudes are esoteric songwriters allergic to chart success and pop showmanship.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Seriously, I’m not sure how “pretentious” or “elitist” would be one’s objections here. This list is mostly massive pop stars and the writers of huge hits. Fucking Mariah Carey is on the list.

Dylan has a Nobel Price and Kendrick has a Pulitzer, but neither of those dudes are esoteric songwriters allergic to chart success and pop showmanship.
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Did Mariah write her songs? I did not know that. :shrug:
 
Clickbait youtube video reacting to a clickbait video from a newspaper riding on its twentieth century glory days.
 
Peen Simmons said:
I didn’t know either, but she’s apparently a credited songwriter on each of her albums.

See…we both learned from this list.
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Just because she’s credited doesn’t mean that she wrote anything. Lots of performers require songwriters to give them credit so that the performer gets a cut of the songwriting royalties. And the songwriters do it because otherwise they don’t get paid at all. That said, Mariah’s intelligent, grew up around music, and has a legitimate reputation for really being a song writer so I’ll gladly assume that she deserves her credits.
 
jp_nyc said:
Just because she’s credited doesn’t mean that she wrote anything. Lots of performers require songwriters to give them credit so that the performer gets a cut of the songwriting royalties. And the songwriters do it because otherwise they don’t get paid at all. That said, Mariah’s intelligent, grew up around music, and has a legitimate reputation for really being a song writer so I’ll gladly assume that she deserves her credits.
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Mariah has the most number ones of any American songwriter. Saw this list awhile back:

Paul McCartney - 32
Max Martin - 29
John Lennon - 26
Mariah Carey - 18
Stevie Wonder - 16
James "Jimmy Jam" Harris III - 15
Terry Lewis - 15
Barry Gibb - 15
Carole King - 13
Eddie Holland - 13
 
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