OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Dogsinotpalc said:
I just hope Pence uses what has been suggested will be his unique level of power as a VP in a responsible way.
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Honestly, I think this is an .... interesting precedent for VP. And by "interesting" I mean very concerning.

The last time we had an unusually powerful vice-president, we were lied into a war that cost trillions of dollars and a quarter of a million people died. Cheney was many awful things, but a hard right religious zealot was not one of them. Pence with much more power than Cheney had .....? Shudder.
 
shoeless said:
So he's not going to be living on Pennsylvania Ave, with the occasional retreat to Camp David? Obama goes up to Camp David all the time. At least his helicopters do, they fly right over my house in 2 groups of 3.
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I expect them to be in NYC fairly often, and to use home court advantage at his properties at every opportunity. What he thinks of you will determine where he meets you.
 
wok said:
Your argument is still total bullshit. Bill Clinton was a sleazebag but he was impeached for lying, not for any sexual crime.

It's not comparable to Trump being taken to court for alleged sexual abuse of a minor and a multitude of pending civil court cases against him for sexual assault
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Never mentioned the fact that Clinton was impeached - I'm more focused on his character, and yes, he was and still is a sleazebag.

The difference between someone being "taken to court" and actually convicted of a crime is significant. Civil lawsuits do not require the same burden of proof as criminal.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
I expect them to be in NYC fairly often, and to use home court advantage at his properties at every opportunity. What he thinks of you will determine where he meets you.
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So foreign dignitaries will be able to tell where they rank when they visit. High floor suite and you're "in"....crappy 1st floor room with double beds by the elevator, don't expect any favors.
 
smurfco said:
I am not sure what I think about the term limits idea. My gut instinct is that it's a good thing but I haven't given it enough thought to really form a smart opinion yet.
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Me either. I think there are other ways to accomplish what term limits would without enacting term limits. Like getting rid of all the money in politics. The reason career politicians are bad, is they are more focused on raising money for re-election than they are on governing. They also, can be conflicted by what they think is right and what their donors think is right. I think if congress had no outside perks, it would be a better place and more would actually get done. I think all term limits would do is let the next jackass in faster. On their own, I don't think they would do much.
 
Lerxst said:
My POV is that the arguments for term limits outweigh the cons but how on earth do you get a group of people who never vote against their self interest, pass it? Aint gonna happen.
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Constitutional Convention. Cut them out from the decision all together.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
Funny how the voices of Trumps supporters suddenly exist here...
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Again good luck to everyone...hope none of us (or our employers) are on Trump's enemies list.
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Pointing out the hypocrisy of one side does not make one a Trump supporter. I think Trump is a despicable human being, but that doesn't put him in any kind of unique category.

And fwiw, I agree with the sentiment of your post. Good luck to everyone - I think we'll be fine.
 
Flamencology said:
Because the power wouldn't be diminished, it would be distributed. Instead of 30-year senators who know the system very well, junior senators will be completely dependent on lobbyists, PACs, so-called experts and specialists, etc., none of whom are accountable to voters.
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I think our state term limits (enacted in the 80s) limit to three terms. That means that at any time, a full third of congress will never have to face his/her constituents again, and are also looking for a high-paying job in the near future. It's a recipe for corporations (or unions or whoever your influence bogeyman is) to adopt pet congresspeople by promising them a lobbying job in exchange for a full term of legislative puppetry. It's one of those ideas that looks good at first blush but is an absolute disaster in practice. You know, like American democracy.
 
jelloman said:
Yeah, because putting a sleaze husband who shoved cigars up an intern's snatch back in the White House is so much less sleazy...
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I still don't get this. What Bill did was not cool, but not illegal. Plus, he isn't running, it is his wife. Trump brags about sexually assaulting women. Sexual assault is illegal. Hillary's worst flaw wouldn't even rank on Trumps top 10.
 
GilmourD said:
On the other side of that argument, we have representatives that don't understand that it's 2016. I'm not even talking about social issues. I'm talking about people that think the Internet is a series of tubes that can get clogged.

The vast majority of our representatives are old white men that simply don't comprehend that the world now isn't the world when they were young. Some of them probably think motorized car windows are magic.

If you're going to legislate the world we live in you should know the world we live in.
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Which is easily solved if the constituents believe their representative is out of touch with their needs and concerns. Kicking out competent professionals for no other reason than to keep the revolving door of amateurs rolling in is a self defeating act.

Would you trust a first year med student to do open heart surgery on you, or would you opt for the head of surgery at Stanford with 500+ operations in their bag?

That's a pretty easy choice from where I am sitting.
 
Chad said:
I still don't get this. What Bill did was not cool, but not illegal. Plus, he isn't running, it is his wife. Trump brags about sexually assaulting women. Sexual assault is illegal. Hillary's worst flaw wouldn't even rank on Trumps top 10.
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Chad, since when has "sleazy" been a legal issue?

I was, and am, objecting to the characterization of the Trump FAMILY as "sleazy" by reminding you all that Bill Clinton is a definite sleaze...I never once made any legality an issue...
 
wagdog said:
Never mentioned the fact that Clinton was impeached - I'm more focused on his character, and yes, he was and still is a sleazebag.

The difference between someone being "taken to court" and actually convicted of a crime is significant. Civil lawsuits do not require the same burden of proof as criminal.
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Clinton was acquitted by the Senate. So your claims amount nada. He is not currently the subject of any civil or criminal proceedings. Also, he is still to be addressed as Mr President, as is the custom for all past holders of the office whether you love them or think he's a sleazeball. It is the same for both Presidents Bush.
 
jelloman said:
Chad, since when has "sleazy" been a legal issue?

I was, and am, objecting to the characterization of the Trump FAMILY as "sleazy" by reminding you all that Bill Clinton is a definite sleaze...I never once made any legality an issue...
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The level of sleaze isn't even on the same planet.

BTW, If nothing Monica did was against her will, none of it was sleazy. You of all people should know that :grin:
 
fuck sleaziness, trump picked a turd who doesn't believe that climate change is real to "transition" the EPA under his watch. it's not going to matter if the oval office gets turned into a sex dungeon when the ice caps melt.
 
335clone said:
Clinton was acquitted by the Senate. So your claims amount nada. He is not currently the subject of any civil or criminal proceedings. Also, he is still to be addressed as Mr President, as is the custom for all past holders of the office whether you love them or think he's a sleazeball. It is the same for both Presidents Bush.
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My claims of what?
 
http://kuow.org/post/ive-been-stopped-8-times-seattle-police-not-because-im-bad-driver From a public servant and very educated man who lives in one of the very most "liberal" cities in the United States.

A lot of what is occurring now is not new at all. It is just all exposed and ramped up right now. I have seen some blame the racial divide on President Obama. That is 1) just false. See article above. It never went away. Just got varnished and disguised somewhat. Some places better than others. 2) Victim blaming. If, during the Obama presidency, more focus was placed on moving forward on the vestiges of this seemingly endless problem, the backlash is not at all his fault. Nor the fault of other minorities or those that are working to right the wrongs. That is classic victim blaming.

Also, I completely get and understand the economic underpinnings of some of Trump's support. Michael Moore points it out for example. The DNC made a big mistake in my mind in underestimating this. And as I said, I preferred Bernie. He at least seemed to speak with more recognition of that issue. But it is not wrong to call out continuing racist, sexist etc. behavior. One hand does not wash the other here. The articles calling it a backlash to "political correctness" are piling on a pretty heavy coat of whitewash. I get that some voted for Trump because of the economic thing. But that is not all that got voted for in casting that ballot.
 
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