Taylor Swift is horrible.

Dogsinotpalc said:
Awesome trolling of false equivalency! :thu:
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Don't know, every time I don't agree with liking free form jazz, Tom Waites or Bob Dylan's voice I'm told it's a matter of personal taste and artistry.

I'm sure there are folks out there that would rather hear Taylor and like her voice better. I would facepalm that one, but...
 
Knox in Box said:
Don't know, every time I don't agree with liking free form jazz, Tom Waites or Bob Dylan's voice I'm told it's a matter of personal taste and artistry.

I'm sure there are folks out there that would rather hear Taylor and like her voice better. I would facepalm that one, but...
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I'm not a fan of either, but one of them is an excellent singer/musician and the other is a modern pop star whose audience is more concerned with her love life and looks then they are with the quality of her music or her horribly limited musical abilities and talent.

As has been cycled through, this is nothing new, but it is at a higher degree than much of what we've previously been exposed to. It's the new paradigm of more calculated "creativity" than we ever thought possible. Just like when films used to be made by tens of people and now they're made by hundreds, possible thousands depending on the scale. Pop albums have been made by as little of as five people (a four piece band and producer, a trio with a producer and engineer, etc.), but now it's teams of tens (multiple writers and producers, possibly separate lyricists, lots of studio musicians, the "talent", and more marketing and promotional people involved every step of the way than you'd think possible).

Most big pop "artists" aren't left/allowed to create their work and the record company market that product. It's a bigger more manipulated machine than ever before. Songs are created and recorded with the assumption that they will be hits and it's a problem when they don't land. But as the audience has been more programmed, more of the manufactured pablum lands on some level or another.

We all know this and most of us are okay with it. I generally don't enjoy this stuff and I'm out of the pop music/pop culture loop enough to not know anything about the artists that can be a product of the constructed pop music mill. So when I hear it, I'm relatively void of bias. My primary bias is how my ears have tuned themselves over the years and balancing what I know I like with wanting to hear something new or different (even if it's only new or different to me).

rambling!
 
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So how do we define: "The Artist formally known as Prince"?

Because of the change, did he become an Entertainer? And then when he switched his name back became an Artist?
 
Flamencology said:
It isn't a matter of personal taste, that bullshit rhetoric is older than @Gary Blanchard. You're objectively wrong. You don't get to graduate.
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You purposely cut the second half of my comment.

So which of those would you like to force me into enjoying in some sort of "Clockwork Orange" therapy, Bob Dylan and Tom Waites' voices or freeform jazz?


download (5).jpg


:)
 
So much for free will.

I allow you to enjoy the anaesthetic, you can listen to them all from your glass shard mattress.
 
Anyhow. I'm sending you all canes, so you can shake them as you tell the kids to get off the lawn.

I did A&R for a major label; I was fortunate enough to have interaction with many, many artists who were (still are?) 'big stars.' Here is what I know for sure that may add something here.

1. I never once met an performer / talent who thought ahead to sales as they were creating. Ever. During post-production? Sure. While sorting through marketing plans? Yup. But even with the most mercenary of artists, I never once saw them sit down and say "now, what would sell the best?" Careful note: I have seen them create out of ego, but artists who do this see the money as their entitlement ... because after all, who wouldn't want to throw their money at them?

2. Almost all people who entertain notions about "selling out" are fans who (being kind here) want to feel 'special' for being a fan of something.

In fact, let me just plunge ahead and trash 'snooty fans' (the type who think Slint are amazing, but can't stand Taylor Swift). I spent way too much of my life around such people; such people are wretchedly unable to see that they have developed their musical palettes to flatter their own sense of self. Frankly, I've never seen a more pathetic yet narcissistic bunch than 'music snobs.' They are infinitely more unbearable than the most enthusiastic of Richard Marx fans.
Careful note #2: There is a huge difference between being passionate and opinionated, and being a 'music snob.' If unsure of the difference, please meet me at an LCD Soundsystem show and we will break it down with 10,000 examples in front of us.

Sorry, having flashbacks.

3. When you're as big as Taylor Swift, you bet you can be greedy or not-so-greedy. This is called moral relativism, and it's a real thing. Bruce Springsteen is not so greedy; Gene Simmons is a greedy pig. Artists this big get to call the shots, and one of the shots they can call is about how they define their relationship with their fans.
Careful note 3: This stuff really is up to her. And if you think <30 is 'mature,' I have some property in Florida you would love. Talent is always kept as immature as possible by those who survive by exploiting them.

As an aside, please feel free to start a separate thread about downloading. I'd be glad to participate, but think it's muddying these waters.
 
jp_nyc said:
I apologize to Taylor Swift. I have been listening to more of her music and learning more about her and now I think she’s wonderful and probably a genius.
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To be honest compared to your original assessment of her vocals.... I think her vocal ability has improved 10 fold from her earlier releases (which to be fair, were recorded when she was a teen or in her 20's)

I still prefer the handful of fast, dance and pop tunes she's released, but with my wife being a super-fan, I get exposed to waaaaaaaay more content than I would go out and search for.

Add to the fact that she's gotten to a position of power in the industry and has put her foot down on some of the bullshit like artist rights, songwriting and master ownership, and has shone a spotlight on the ticket and arena monopolies.... I applaud her efforts.

Next, I'd like to see her use some of her leverage on the streaming services to change the pittance that they pay artists.
 
She seems like a great person. My kids (18 and 19) love her music and just paid a small fortune to go see her a few months ago. I haven’t heard anything from her that I liked, but 52 year old men probably aren’t her target demographic. She’s definitely talented and when I took my kids to see her (pre Covid) she puts on a great show.
 
baimun said:
The NPR tiny desk concert, along with BBC Radio one in the Studio are great barometers of artists.... level playing fields where they don't get the benefit of massive stage production and background performers.
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If I ever had the chance to spend 30 seconds in front of her I would tell her she needs to record an album just like that...
 
jelloman said:
If I ever had the chance to spend 30 seconds in front of her I would tell her she needs to record an album just like that...
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Pretty sure she did something like that during covid.... she worked with one other songwriter and most of the songs are just her on guitar or piano, and some have one or two other instruments along with. I'd have to consult my wife to be certain. :tongue:
 
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