Got to my gig and now totally rethinking my sounds

I hope this makes you feel better. Most likely 99% of the people at the show would have no idea if the only thing in your setup was guitar--> dirt box --> amp.
 
Chad said:
I hope this makes you feel better. Most likely 99% of the people at the show would have no idea if the only thing in your setup was guitar--> dirt box --> amp.
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Exactly... Problem is, Mark is a pro, and a teacher, so he's all screwed up...
 
paulskirocks said:
Exactly... Problem is, Mark is a pro, and a teacher, so he's all screwed up...
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I am guilty of over-thinking my setup just as much as the next guy. And it doesn't help that Mark is truely a professional. I have made a living playing music, but it was always as a band, not a hired guy, which is a totally different animal, so I get Mark's struggle with this.
 
Chad said:
I hope this makes you feel better. Most likely 99% of the people at the show would have no idea if the only thing in your setup was guitar--> dirt box --> amp.
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Chad said:
I am guilty of over-thinking my setup just as much as the next guy. And it doesn't help that Mark is truely a professional. I have made a living playing music, but it was always as a band, not a hired guy, which is a totally different animal, so I get Mark's struggle with this.
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I get this part completely. But like you mention in the second post it is important to me and I'd also like to get out play with some other groups that are a little higher on the "pro" food chain so I'm wanting to have my shit together before I start doing other projects...
 
Mark Wein said:
I get this part completely. But like you mention in the second post it is important to me and I'd also like to get out play with some other groups that are a little higher on the "pro" food chain so I'm wanting to have my shit together before I start doing other projects...
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not having been in that environment, i do have a rather amateurish question. why is it important to recreate the sound as closely as possible? isn't it better to play the parts and get the overall vibe of the song, and yeah, if you have a chorus pedal (i pulled that out of my ass) then great?
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
not having been in that environment, i do have a rather amateurish question. why is it important to recreate the sound as closely as possible? isn't it better to play the parts and get the overall vibe of the song, and yeah, if you have a chorus pedal (i pulled that out of my ass) then great?
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Well, really it's impossible to pull any sound off "exactly" but I do want to sound close. Most listeners won't be able to tell the difference in the details and I'm not going for that so much...otherwise I'd have a much bigger board. For me they need to be "close enough to sound right to the average listener" and "good enough to make me happy and sound like I know what I'm doing to other working players".
 
Mark Wein said:
Well, really it's impossible to pull any sound off "exactly" but I do want to sound close. Most listeners won't be able to tell the difference in the details and I'm not going for that so much...otherwise I'd have a much bigger board. For me they need to be "close enough to sound right to the average listener" and "good enough to make me happy and sound like I know what I'm doing to other working players".
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ok, i get that. so how is working with this board different than your rack gear in the same situations from a decade ago?
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
that's hindsight. i'm more asking about how working with it to achieve sounds is different than working with your rack gear.
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The rack gear had a lot more flexibility in terms of presetting effects but in the end it all pretty much sounded the same. In terms of usable overdrive and distortion textures I get way more out of this setup and it is much more reactive to my volume knob and pickup changes.

In reality I spent so much time messing with the gear trying to get things "right" that I never focused on performing. Some folks were very successful with setups like that but it just didn't work for me.
 
Mark Wein said:
In reality I spent so much time messing with the gear trying to get things "right" that I never focused on performing. Some folks were very successful with setups like that but it just didn't work for me.
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how is that different from your approach now? (that's not a dig, i'm just trying to get to the method behind the madness.)
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
how is that different from your approach now? (that's not a dig, i'm just trying to get to the method behind the madness.)
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Once I have this dialed in I'm in pretty good shape. It'll make me happy sonically and work for the gig. I never got to that point with my 1990's setup.
 
One thought: once you get this dialed down you could teach an "effects: a practical application" class because if I were a new guitarist starting out I'd go out of my mind with the option anxiety inducing variety of effects you could buy.

There was a setup at a local music store that was every effects pedal by Boss, Digitech and a few others on one big pedalboard.

I desperately wanted to try it out with all of the effects pedals turned on at once but knew the resulting cacophony would get me tossed out on my ear.
 
aliensporebomb said:
One thought: once you get this dialed down you could teach an "effects: a practical application" class because if I were a new guitarist starting out I'd go out of my mind with the option anxiety inducing variety of effects you could buy.

There was a setup at a local music store that was every effects pedal by Boss, Digitech and a few others on one big pedalboard.

I desperately wanted to try it out with all of the effects pedals turned on at once but knew the resulting cacophony would get me tossed out on my ear.
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New guitarist? How about 30 years experience. I think more than instruction on playing guitar, I need guidance, and stomp box 101 would be on my list, for sure...
 
aliensporebomb said:
One thought: once you get this dialed down you could teach an "effects: a practical application" class because if I were a new guitarist starting out I'd go out of my mind with the option anxiety inducing variety of effects you could buy.

There was a setup at a local music store that was every effects pedal by Boss, Digitech and a few others on one big pedalboard.

I desperately wanted to try it out with all of the effects pedals turned on at once but knew the resulting cacophony would get me tossed out on my ear.
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i try to take a break with my students and show them how shit works every so often. one kid got a DS-1 a few weeks ago and i showed him how to make it not sound like shit. well, at least as much not like shit as a DS-1 can sound.
 
Wein, how are you "testing" your setup/sounds? Just live, on-the-fly impressions? Do you have someone taping your sets? Some rough recordings might give you a better idea of how things sound in the house vs. on stage.

Also, when I lived in Chicago, my buddy Dima and I used to make it a point to attend each others' early gigs and give feedback re: how shit sounded in the room vs. how shit sounds when you're on stage battling the house PA and a heavy-hitting drummer. Same thing with recording. Just having someone else around who's a disinterested third party to bounce ideas off of. Got a bro who could help you out?
 
aliensporebomb said:
One thought: once you get this dialed down you could teach an "effects: a practical application" class because if I were a new guitarist starting out I'd go out of my mind with the option anxiety inducing variety of effects you could buy.

There was a setup at a local music store that was every effects pedal by Boss, Digitech and a few others on one big pedalboard.

I desperately wanted to try it out with all of the effects pedals turned on at once but knew the resulting cacophony would get me tossed out on my ear.
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I've been writing about my experiences and I usually bring my gear into classes every few months for the students to try or hear how I get sounds. It would be fun to have a workshop on getting sounds but there are so many ways and so many preferences that it would be hard to make everyone happy....

Help!I'maRock! said:
every time i get to that point, miraculously, another piece of gear shows up. funny how that works.
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I really can't afford that anymore, though. Probably shouldn't be buying any gear at the moment but this is kind of important to me.


Sad Navigator said:
Wein, how are you "testing" your setup/sounds? Just live, on-the-fly impressions? Do you have someone taping your sets? Some rough recordings might give you a better idea of how things sound in the house vs. on stage.

Also, when I lived in Chicago, my buddy Dima and I used to make it a point to attend each others' early gigs and give feedback re: how shit sounded in the room vs. how shit sounds when you're on stage battling the house PA and a heavy-hitting drummer. Same thing with recording. Just having someone else around who's a disinterested third party to bounce ideas off of. Got a bro who could help you out?
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I was recording shows a couple of times a month for a while. It was pretty easy when we had the regular Thursday night gig. Right now is difficult because I can't really set up anything in this particular environment. It's more about how things feel and work while I'm on the gig which I know isn't the best gauge of what is really going on. And none of my friends really want to come see this particular band, either :embarrassed:
 
Mark Wein said:
I've been writing about my experiences and I usually bring my gear into classes every few months for the students to try or hear how I get sounds. It would be fun to have a workshop on getting sounds but there are so many ways and so many preferences that it would be hard to make everyone happy....
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i don't think it's a matter of making everybody happy though. it's about finding what configuration works best for you and showing people how to be curious in their sound. too many people get locked into what you're "supposed to sound like" and what order this shit is supposed to go in. it doesn't always make for the right combination.
 
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