Lerxst
spaghetti and blankets
IIRC most of the production guitars have abandoned the short tenon/rocker tenon at this point for the key hole one as pictured above
Gibson Ultra Modern Weight Relief
- Thread starter Lerxst
- Start date
IIRC most of the production guitars have abandoned the short tenon/rocker tenon at this point for the key hole one as pictured above
jp_nyc
Kick Henry Jackassowski
What I love is that in a Les Paul a shit neck joint is so desirable Gibson has to use it, but in an SG a shit neck joint is so undesirable that it kills the value on early vintage models. Gibson history fanboys are crazy.
Dexter Inferno
Serious error
At least that would be one sensible thing they've done in recent years. They really shouldn't have stopped there though.
GAS Man
State of Imbalance
I know this technique is something they've been doing for several years.
Here's the 9 hole to the left of the ultra modern for comparison:
I guess the thing I don't get is that Gibson consistently maintains that there's no real tone difference between the non-weight relieved and the 9 hole or ultra modern, just how much the guitar weighs. Which of course runs contrary to the weight=mojo argument that most old timer LP guys make.
That's a cool pic, thanks for posting. I own LPs with the first 4 configs (I guess). The Supreme is also thicker with maple cap front and back. It has a more semi-hollow tone than most. But I totally do not buy into that "Gibson statement" above. The tonal differences are rather easy to perceive. I've also seen it where I, for example, may not particularly like the 498T tone, but I do on my Supreme. Or you take a p'up like the BB Pros, I'll swear they sound better with an LP with some resonant density to it. With too much chambering, the BB Pro's can be a bit too much "in you face". They're just particularly vibey pickups and they need some meat to eat.
I know that weight relief is widely regarded as a substitute for "good wood", but I think it's just good to explore them for which weight and tone appeals to the player. My lightest LP is a faded Vintage Mahogany. It weighs in at about 7 pounds. I somehow doubt it's even depicted here. That particular LP is so light, it's sustain is noticeable shorter, but it's still a pretty good bluesy sounding Lester.
jp_nyc
Kick Henry Jackassowski
But how can you narrow it down to the chambering and not something else? Right now I have two SGs with 490R/490T pickups. They have the same routing, but they sound different. It could be that one is almost decade older so the magnets are weaker. Or maybe the winding is a little bit different. Maybe one block of wood is more resonant. Or it could be the different pots. There are just too many variables to ever know what really makes them sound different without actually building a series of otherwise identical guitars from the same material and A/B testing them.
But that does bring a cool thought to mind. Since wood is so wildly variable, just 3D print the bodies and test them using the same electronics and neck! Not that I have the equipment or funds or a studio to do it in, but someday, somewhere, someone will. And I’m sure Gibson already has.
Lerxst
spaghetti and blankets
Virtual Pariah
Kick Henry Jackassowski
I don't think so.
The 07 studios had the routing that was close to what the elegants had. I don't think that changed till 10.
Studio, Standard = Elegant like
Traditional, Classic = 9 hole
Custom = 9 hole
Historic = no weight relief unless it was a cloud 9 or a Custom Shop Custom (whenever they took over building all customs)
Custom Historic = no weight relief (68'ri's JB Oxbloods, RR's,)
Their naming conventions were terrible, but I had an 07-08 studio that had the hogged out body and it was terrible from a balance standpoint.
Help!I'maRock!
Mediocringly Derivative
The '08 Standard specifically had the modern relief pattern. That's what they sold it on, along with the keyed tenon and asymmetrical neck. You're spot on about everything else. GAS Man's Vintage Mahogany should also have the "elegant like" routing.
GAS Man
State of Imbalance
Yeah, that's all true. I've got an SG Std that doesn't really sound all that great. I later bought another SG Std for my son that sounded remarkably better. Both had the same p'ups and very similar build. So I'd say weight relief or chambering contributes, but there are other variables. I've got two almost identical Fender Strat Deluxes as home. Both have the exact same pickups and wiring and bridge, but one has a maple fb + alder body and the other has a fairly dense ash body + ebony fb. The tone is easily markedly different between the two. The ash+ebony is definitely brighter.
Help!I'maRock!
Mediocringly Derivative
Is this the "Richard Hell and the Voidoids" signature model?
That's your Vintage Mahogany.
mikesr1963
Gonna walk my dog, you?
Gibson has been running their CNC machines since the late 80's. They have two and can do 5 bodies at a time. Total "accumulated" run time on the CNC averages 5 to 10 minutes. 5 bodies in 5 or 10 minutes depending on the model. These are open model CNC machines. They're not enclosed and the cutters don't require liquid cooling. If you're machining metal, hours, yes. Guitar bodies, minutes.
dmn23
Duller than cardboard
In this context does "Traditional" refer to old school Gibsons, or does it refer to the Traditional and Traditional Pro line? My 2012 blue LP is a Traditional Pro and the bathroom scale says it's 9.4lbs.
Lerxst
spaghetti and blankets
Both
...depending on your definition of old school Gibsons. Weight relief started in the early 80s, post norlin era.
GAS Man
State of Imbalance
That's your Vintage Mahogany.
I believe it.
That's why my VM has "sustain for seconds!" LOL