Diesel vs. Gas. Frustrating, but I think it will even out a bit.

sunvalleylaw

sunvalleylaw

Yep.
With the fall of gas prices, the lack of decline in Diesel is a bit perplexing, and frustrating. I understand that part of it is that the market share for general auto diesel here is very small compared to gas, and that most diesel goes elsewhere (like Europe where most cars are diesel powered), but it is still frustrating. Also, the "passing along" of the extra cost to make extra low sulphur should be winding down. Looks like diesel prices are just starting to fall a bit, so hopefully it will even out a bit. Hopefully for us folks running the less refined juice.
 
I noticed that. I do not own a diesel powered car, but here the diesel prices are consistently 80¢ a gallon higher.
 
Dat be the price for rollin' coal!
fart.gif

:poke:
 
Definitely odd, but around here diesel has dropped, just not as drastically as gasoline. Nice to be able to fill up the truck for less than a benjamin again.
 
Coralkong said:
I never understood why diesel was more to begin with, to be honest.
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Reading up on it, it is supposed to be a combination of supply and demand, which is weaker as compared to gas here, for auto use, and passing along the cost of the ultra low sulphur refining equipment. Does not make complete sense to me, but that it the explanation.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...demand-keeps-prices-higher-gasoline/21358921/

https://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Why-diesel-costs-more/1715-485481-832.aspx
 
It doesn't make much sense to me either.

Another thing that makes no sense to me is E85. Both my Ranger and my Impala are Flex Fuel, which means I can run either regular gasoline or E85. Until about a year ago, no gas stations anywhere near me even sold E85. Then a new gas station opened with E85. I figured I'd give it a shot since it was something like $.80/gallon cheaper than regular gas.

Well, my MPG dropped dramatically to the point that I figured I'd saved maybe $.10 running a tank of E85 as opposed to regular.

Now, that same station has gas at $2.19/gallon and E85 at $2.05 or something. It would definitely be more expensive to run the 'cheap' stuff.

Back when I worked at a gas station (1996-1998) our diesel was always about $.10/gallon cheaper than regular gas. That may have been before the ultra low sulphur stuff came to be, though.
 
Diesel out here in SoCal is also much higher. And yes I agree with Prages in that not long ago Diesel was less then gas. But as always, it really comes down to Supply and Demand. I also believe that Diesel is much more difficult to process than Standard fuel which our cars take.
 
Diesel is actually less refined than gasoline....at least it was before the ultra low sulphur content thing.
 
Modern Saint said:
Diesel out here in SoCal is also much higher. And yes I agree with Prages in that not long ago Diesel was less then gas. But as always, it really comes down to Supply and Demand. I also believe that Diesel is much more difficult to process than Standard fuel which our cars take.
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To my knowledge, Diesel is not harder to refine as compared to gasoline, but did get harder not quite 10 years ago than it used to be, with the low sulphur standards. I believe based on what I have read that diesel is still less refined, but there was some significant investment in 2006 to meet ultra low sulphur standards, that had to be passed on,. The main factor is demand it appears. Worldwide demand for diesel, and declining demand for gasoline, relatively speaking. Based on the below article, purchases of passenger cars in many other areas (Europe, India, China) are very much more diesel than gas. the article is a few years old, but I don't think the main factors have changed.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/05/diesel-fuel-and-gasoline-costs/

What I still don't understand is why the massive drop in gas prices due to the drop in price for crude, without a similar drop in diesel price. I guess the price for diesel is starting to fall, but not as quickly. Might be because is is winter so heating fuels demand is insulating the impact, vs. gas demand, which is less in the winter vs. summer.
 
sunvalleylaw said:
To my knowledge, Diesel is not harder to refine as compared to gasoline, but did get harder not quite 10 years ago than it used to be, with the low sulphur standards. I believe based on what I have read that diesel is still less refined, but there was some significant investment in 2006 to meet ultra low sulphur standards, that had to be passed on,. The main factor is demand it appears. Worldwide demand for diesel, and declining demand for gasoline, relatively speaking. Based on the below article, purchases of passenger cars in many other areas (Europe, India, China) are very much more diesel than gas. the article is a few years old, but I don't think the main factors have changed.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/05/diesel-fuel-and-gasoline-costs/

What I still don't understand is why the massive drop in gas prices due to the drop in price for crude, without a similar drop in diesel price. I guess the price for diesel is starting to fall, but not as quickly. Might be because is is winter so heating fuels demand is insulating the impact, vs. gas demand, which is less in the winter vs. summer.
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Yes Diesel is less refined than gasoline. I had a short briefing on fuels from a friend because of our interest in 1/87th scale models. It also helped that he worked for a refinery as well.

Bottom line is supply and demand.
 
The 2 times I've been to Europe, diesel has been cheaper than regular gas there.

Here at my local Shell station, regular is at $1.99, diesel at $2.89
 
OK, well let me ask this:

What's the advantage to owning a diesel car then?

Diesel is dirtier, more expensive to fuel up and repairs are more expensive.

I know you get better mpg, but if the fuel costs $1/gallon, it sounds like it works out about the same.
Plus, I know power ratings in diesels are not as high as petrol powered cars.

I understand it for tractor trailers, as they are putting thousands and thousands of miles on them every week, but for an everyday commuter car.....well....

Just curious what the big "selling point" is.
 
Diesel prices here fallen here already. I put some in my wife's car yesterday and paid 2.64 a gallon. I think that is about what super unleaded costs here now. Regular gas is maybe 2.35.

As for why get a diesel, my wife loves the fuel efficiency that rivals some hybrids (she gets around 42 mpg average, and we have seen 52 mpg on long highway trips) and the torque that makes a pretty fuel efficient car feel way more powerful than it is. She also gets to drive in the HOV lanes on the highway, and the feds gave us a big tax credit for getting it (which they don't offer anymore). Of course, when gas prices fall, the diesel isn't such a great deal anymore. Anyway, her car is paid for and only has 80K miles on it, so there isn't any reason to change anything even if gas prices drop more and diesel doesn't. When we bought her car hybrids were still kind of a new thing, and there were pretty limited selections of cars that got great mileage but drove like a Geo Metro and looked awful. Not sure if we bought today we would go diesel again.

Her only complaints so far are that diesel pumps smell bad and they sometimes have a truck sized nozzle that will not fit in her car fuel tank port.
 
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Coralkong said:
OK, well let me ask this:

What's the advantage to owning a diesel car then?

Diesel is dirtier, more expensive to fuel up and repairs are more expensive.

I know you get better mpg, but if the fuel costs $1/gallon, it sounds like it works out about the same.
Plus, I know power ratings in diesels are not as high as petrol powered cars.

I understand it for tractor trailers, as they are putting thousands and thousands of miles on them every week, but for an everyday commuter car.....well....

Just curious what the big "selling point" is.
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Not dirtier really. VW and Audi use basically the same common core engines, though VW uses solenoid injectors instead of piezo, for reliability. the concept is the same. Prices should even out over time, and if historical trends return, should reap some reward financially if one is driving a fair amount, as I do. But also, it is supporting a cleaner (overall) and more efficient, power plant. Hybrids are great, but I am not so sure about the ecological impacts of the battery production and disposal. Clean diesel is more desirable for the planet, at least in my perception. Perhaps the two concepts could be melded over time. But for now. this (2005 Passat Wagon TDI) is the best, most efficient car I can afford. And it is fun to drive, especially with the manual tranny that the one I am getting will have.

See here for an article touching on some of my considerations. http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/are-diesel-powered-cars-better-than-hybrids/
 
If you want to see the advantage of diesel over gasoline just watch the 24 hours of Le Man and you will see it. Better efficiency, more torque. The diesel powered cars runs circles around the gasoline powered equivalents, and every effort to balance that advantage in the rules has so far not worked.
 
Prages said:
It doesn't make much sense to me either.

Another thing that makes no sense to me is E85. Both my Ranger and my Impala are Flex Fuel, which means I can run either regular gasoline or E85. Until about a year ago, no gas stations anywhere near me even sold E85. Then a new gas station opened with E85. I figured I'd give it a shot since it was something like $.80/gallon cheaper than regular gas.

Well, my MPG dropped dramatically to the point that I figured I'd saved maybe $.10 running a tank of E85 as opposed to regular.

Now, that same station has gas at $2.19/gallon and E85 at $2.05 or something. It would definitely be more expensive to run the 'cheap' stuff.

Back when I worked at a gas station (1996-1998) our diesel was always about $.10/gallon cheaper than regular gas. That may have been before the ultra low sulphur stuff came to be, though.
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Yeah, E85 only gives you a percentage of the mileage (about 70-75%) of gasoline; however, here it is about $.55 a gallon cheaper than regular :shrug: . Regular in my hood was $1.86.
 
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There was someone on NPR the other day talking about this... they said that the gas/diesel prices will probably not flip back and that with the increased mileage that traditional cars are starting to see that "your next car won't be a diesel".

Sorry... just reporting what I heard.
 
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