So that whole "Is being punk an excuse for sucking" thread...

cfgsteak

cfgsteak

Kick Henry Jackassowski
I have been thinking about that thread a lot. Just the premise of it, not the usual HCGJ craziness that accompanies a thread like that over there...

Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols is the guy that probably influenced me the most to pick up a guitar. And it was becasue the stuff he did was obtainable. And I like to listen to that kinda of stuff...

And when I finally got a guitar my intention was to be able to learn a few songs that I could "play around the campfire" kinda thing...

And after a few years I got pretty freakin board with the whole thing. I couldn't solo, I couldn't really write any songs and outside of a few open chords and some basic power chords I had NO IDEA what to do with a guitar...

So it just seemed natural to do one of two things. Give up, or learn something. And one of the best things about this forum is that nearly everyone here seems to want to get BETTER. After really practicing hard for the first time since I first started 5 years ago the last few weeks I am finally feeling good about my ability to play the guitar.

I love punk, but there is simply no reason to not try to improve (if you care about it). I don't believe that you can honestly put in practice and continue to "suck".

And I know where the F# is on the fretboard now. In all 11 spots on my guitar. :grin:

Anyway, its just been on my mind since last night...
 
punk is not prerequisite for shit music or shitty musicianship.

you can spend your entire life mastering music, and you can still put out some pretty shitty music.



:lol:

i was heavy into punk for the first 5 years or so of my playing, and its what inspired me to play music. i GET it.

some people wont. :shrug: - i never started playing punk because it was easy, or sloppy... i played it caused i liked it! - and that "punk" element still exists in my playing, especially in Jazz. its taught me alot about musical energy and momentum.

with 6+ billion people, we're bound to have differences of opinion. especially on something as arbitrary as music.
 
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cfgsteak said:
I have been thinking about that thread a lot. Just the premise of it, not the usual HCGJ craziness that accompanies a thread like that over there...

Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols is the guy that probably influenced me the most to pick up a guitar. And it was becasue the stuff he did was obtainable. And I like to listen to that kinda of stuff...

And when I finally got a guitar my intention was to be able to learn a few songs that I could "play around the campfire" kinda thing...

And after a few years I got pretty freakin board with the whole thing. I couldn't solo, I couldn't really write any songs and outside of a few open chords and some basic power chords I had NO IDEA what to do with a guitar...

So it just seemed natural to do one of two things. Give up, or learn something. And one of the best things about this forum is that nearly everyone here seems to want to get BETTER. After really practicing hard for the first time since I first started 5 years ago the last few weeks I am finally feeling good about my ability to play the guitar.

I love punk, but there is simply no reason to not try to improve (if you care about it). I don't believe that you can honestly put in practice and continue to "suck".

And I know where the F# is on the fretboard now. In all 11 spots on my guitar. :grin:

Anyway, its just been on my mind since last night...
Click to expand...

Even if you don't like the Pistols, Steve Jones tone on that album was one of the best.

 
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Now this doesn't have anything to do with punk, but one of the best things to do is learn how to build songs in key via the circle of fifths and how to construct chords via the major scale. This helps more people click with what is happening with the guitar than anything. I don't know how anyone can get by without knowing the above. Mark, do you have a lesson on this somewhere?
 
Woodiefascist.jpg


Punk as fuck.
 
Kerouac said:
Woodiefascist.jpg


Punk as fuck.
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:thu:

I know (at least, I think) that I'm in the minority on this, but I've always looked at punk as more of an attitude than a style of music. If you look at the bands that have been labeled (either by themselves or others) as 'punk,' how can they all be in the same category, really? The Ramones sound nothing like the Dead Kennedys sound nothing like Social Distortion sound nothing like Black Flag sound nothing like Blink 182.

It's all just rock, with some different flavors, I think.
 
Punk rock killed hair metal.

Before the internets I had no idea there were so many washed up, butt hurt ex hair metal guitarists in the world.
 
I read the thread title, and thought something along the lines of "if you can say that about punk rock, then you can say the same thing for 99% of rock music".

Point being that "virtuosity" in rock music (or any of its children, whether we're talking prog, metal, etc., where the musicians to tend to be a bit more accomplished) hardly means the same thing that it does in classical music, jazz, Indian classical, whatever, where a high degree of technical achievement is simply a bassline, a requirement, an expectation, whatever.

Of course, that's putting the horse before the cart, and I don't agree with that philosophy at all...

But there's definitely a double standard there when it comes from people who tout arena rock as brilliant. IMHO.
 
Jeremy said:
:thu:

I know (at least, I think) that I'm in the minority on this, but I've always looked at punk as more of an attitude than a style of music. If you look at the bands that have been labeled (either by themselves or others) as 'punk,' how can they all be in the same category, really? The Ramones sound nothing like the Dead Kennedys sound nothing like Social Distortion sound nothing like Black Flag sound nothing like Blink 182.

It's all just rock, with some different flavors, I think.
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I see it as an approach, a different set of rules/standards. I happen to like that approach a lot even though I don't necessarily listen to stuff that fits the genre requirements for punk rock purity (though there are a lot of punk records I dig).

Being a twitchy, type-A fussbudget, I found punk liberating because it forced me to look at my own standards and assumptions and realize that there were other, less-tidy and less-conventional ways to be/think/work/create.
 
I guess my point was, why wouldn't anyone want to get better at playing the guitar that plays it. The music isn't an excuse, not matter what you play or like.
 
cfgsteak said:
I guess my point was, why wouldn't anyone want to get better at playing the guitar that plays it. The music isn't an excuse, not matter what you play or like.
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Well, "better" seems to imply some sort of linear or progressive understanding of guitar playing as moving from point A to B to C and so on. I suggests that "face melting lead" is more valuable than a couple of barre chords. While that's the conventional understanding, isn't another way of thinking about your playing to consider if you are able to freely communicate what you're trying to communicate or if you enjoy playing, etc.?
 
cfgsteak said:
I guess my point was, why wouldn't anyone want to get better at playing the guitar that plays it. The music isn't an excuse, not matter what you play or like.
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I agree with you (and apologize for my tangent :lol:). Anyone who's interested in playing will always want to get better at their instrument.
 
cfgsteak said:
I guess my point was, why wouldn't anyone want to get better at playing the guitar that plays it. The music isn't an excuse, not matter what you play or like.
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Because better is subjective? I suppose I could go back to practicing 8 hours a day and get to be an awesome shredder, but does that make me a better musician or a better guitarist? If I spend every night jamming with a bunch of people does that make me a better guitarist or does it make me a better performer? It could potentially be both, but it's all a matter of priorities.

Every once and awhile I go to a jam at a friend's house. Every Sunday they get together and play Hendrix songs in a very inauthentic manner, but do it because it's fun. They'll trade up between guitar and bass and just have fun with it, technique or knowledge be damned. The one guy has a very expensive guitar and amp and does nothing but play Hendrix on it and he doesn't practice ever... he just plays and sometimes it comes out great and sometimes not so much. But it's fun and energetic and you get caught up in it.

That is punk.
 
Sad Navigator said:
Well, "better" seems to imply some sort of linear or progressive understanding of guitar playing as moving from point A to B to C and so on. I suggests that "face melting lead" is more valuable than a couple of barre chords. While that's the conventional understanding, isn't another way of thinking about your playing to consider if you are able to freely communicate what you're trying to communicate or if you enjoy playing, etc.?
Click to expand...

Well, exactly. How would practicing and learning hurt your ability to communicate more effectively? It could only help.

Also, I'm not so sure I agree with you on the first part of your post...I imagine "better" is a pretty subjective word. When I used it (the word "better"), I meant what you are talking about in the second part of your post, the communication part. I really don't consider a "face-melter" more important then a few chords...but I can already play a few chords...it would be nice to manage to play lead part that fit in with the song, and I can't do that right now because my theory is non-existant, and my timing is not very good (these are the things I am practicing so I can communicate my feelings on the guitar more effectively).

And i don't want to play leads that sound like Neil Young (:wink:) or Black Flag. :grin:
 
Kerouac said:
Because better is subjective? I suppose I could go back to practicing 8 hours a day and get to be an awesome shredder, but does that make me a better musician or a better guitarist? If I spend every night jamming with a bunch of people does that make me a better guitarist or does it make me a better performer? It could potentially be both, but it's all a matter of priorities.

Every once and awhile I go to a jam at a friend's house. Every Sunday they get together and play Hendrix songs in a very inauthentic manner, but do it because it's fun. They'll trade up between guitar and bass and just have fun with it, technique or knowledge be damned. The one guy has a very expensive guitar and amp and does nothing but play Hendrix on it and he doesn't practice ever... he just plays and sometimes it comes out great and sometimes not so much. But it's fun and energetic and you get caught up in it.

That is punk.
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This really has nothing to do with punk, sheesh.

And it has nothing to do with being a "shredder". I'm kinda suprised at your response since you teach. I can't imagine that you incoursge your students NOT to practice. I imagine that you and your Hendrix friend had to practice and invest some time in getting "better" before you could just sit around and jam to "Hendrixy" tunes...

I would think that there are other ways to get "better" at playing guitar then shredding. Some you you guys seem to be caught up in a practice = shredding mode or something...thats not what I am saying at all.
 
cfgsteak said:
Well, exactly. How would practicing and learning hurt your ability to communicate more effectively? It could only help.

Also, I'm not so sure I agree with you on the first part of your post...I imagine "better" is a pretty subjective word. When I used it (the word "better"), I meant what you are talking about in the second part of your post, the communication part. I really don't consider a "face-melter" more important then a few chords...but I can already play a few chords...it would be nice to manage to play lead part that fit in with the song, and I can't do that right now because my theory is non-existant, and my timing is not very good (these are the things I am practicing so I can communicate my feelings on the guitar more effectively).

And i don't want to play leads that sound like Neil Young (:wink:) or Black Flag. :grin:
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I just used "face melting" as a placeholder. I'm just saying that "better" is a value judgment vs. something more neutral like "different." It's linear in the way that good --> better --> best is linear. It's comparative. Anyway, sitting around discussing who's better and who's best at guitaring seems mostly useless (as HCGJ has shown us) -- at the very least, I don't find it rewarding or helpful.
 
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