Tig
Fucktangular
Well, it'$ a long $tory $o I hope you have $ome time to $it and li$ten...
OMG Politics, I'm over it already.
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Well, it'$ a long $tory $o I hope you have $ome time to $it and li$ten...
yabba
Weird Pick Butt Person
This is the same 'reason' for anti-vaccination nutjobs.
yabba
Weird Pick Butt Person
He makes good points, and the money chase definitely leads to shitty, lazy science (and all-out fraud on the extreme end), but I think the primary reason for wacky bullshit being put out there is the mainstream media blowing a result waaaaay out of proportion, and the general public's lack of scientific literacy and eagerness to believe what media reports.
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
mongooz
.
i wanted to stay out of this discussion....but i can't. so here goes.
i do not disagree that the earth's climate is changing. it has been for over 40 million years. it changes constantly, always has, always will, whether there are humans here or not.
i agree that we are accelerating the changes. i DO NOT agree that humans are completely responsible for the changes and are the ONLY driving factor. (that's where the bullshit from the left comes from).
i agree that big money on the right is attempting to suppress the knowledge of the existence of the changing climate. but also big money on the left is exaggerating the effects. (i watched a program where the climate scientists and modelers were talking about how soon the climate will become unlivable....and one of the modelers was asked, "how did you quantify the oceans in your model?'. his answer was 'we can't quantify them.....we don't know enough about how they work to be able to assign values to them, so we ignored them'. now THAT is bullshit.)
a lot of people who are wringing their hands about the climate change and how it could end human existence. what they seem to forget that we humans are not destined to remain on this earth FOREVER! there WILL come a time when WE become extinct, whether of our own doing or because the earth constantly changes and some of those changes just might wipe us out. there IS another ice age coming. the ice cores that they've been taking at both poles proves that we are overdue for one.
i agree that we could do a much better job of taking care of our environment.
i also agree that there are simply too damn many people on the planet and that is also a driving force in the contribution to the climate change.
i am not saying that we should do nothing. i am also saying that we can not put the technology genie back in the bottle and go back to living in caves.
i don't know what else i can say. so i'm done on this subject because i fully believe that there are lies being told by both sides of the issue as a means to further their respective political agendas, and i'm not going to argue about it.
i do not disagree that the earth's climate is changing. it has been for over 40 million years. it changes constantly, always has, always will, whether there are humans here or not.
i agree that we are accelerating the changes. i DO NOT agree that humans are completely responsible for the changes and are the ONLY driving factor. (that's where the bullshit from the left comes from).
i agree that big money on the right is attempting to suppress the knowledge of the existence of the changing climate. but also big money on the left is exaggerating the effects. (i watched a program where the climate scientists and modelers were talking about how soon the climate will become unlivable....and one of the modelers was asked, "how did you quantify the oceans in your model?'. his answer was 'we can't quantify them.....we don't know enough about how they work to be able to assign values to them, so we ignored them'. now THAT is bullshit.)
a lot of people who are wringing their hands about the climate change and how it could end human existence. what they seem to forget that we humans are not destined to remain on this earth FOREVER! there WILL come a time when WE become extinct, whether of our own doing or because the earth constantly changes and some of those changes just might wipe us out. there IS another ice age coming. the ice cores that they've been taking at both poles proves that we are overdue for one.
i agree that we could do a much better job of taking care of our environment.
i also agree that there are simply too damn many people on the planet and that is also a driving force in the contribution to the climate change.
i am not saying that we should do nothing. i am also saying that we can not put the technology genie back in the bottle and go back to living in caves.
i don't know what else i can say. so i'm done on this subject because i fully believe that there are lies being told by both sides of the issue as a means to further their respective political agendas, and i'm not going to argue about it.
I don't think is a particularly controversial opinion....and, in fact, I agree with you on much of it.
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
I think we are largely in agreement, other than I think we need to start making changes now, and voting with our dollars now. It just seems to me that because we have human caused acceleration, expanding worldwide population, carbon based transportation and goods production is a big problem and there are alternatives, (particularly with transportation) we should do something now, and not keep investing in carbon based transportation, except as necessary as part of an exit strategy. Plus, there are many other reasons to reduce petrolum/coal use, plastics (just packaging, grocery sacks, and plastic water bottles among other things) besides climate change. So it seems a no brainer to be taking steps now. I really just don't see the argument against it. If the some on the left are exaggerating, that is annoying. But there is so much evidence of a problem that one can ignore the chicken little stuff and still be moved to take steps. I am driving a turbo diesel right now, hoping to get good fuel economy, while the infrastructure for electric vehicles comes along to my neck of the woods over the next 5 years. Then I plan on buying something Musk built, or a competitor, that does not use petroleum at all, at least to run.
Chad
Slender Hobbit
What I don't get, is even if you don't believe climate change at all, there is a finite amount of fossil fuels. If we do nothing, once that supply is close to being gone, we are looking at Mad Max. If I could afford an electric car (hell, I wish I could afford any new car, my 2006 Volvo is barely running) I would buy one. My car is only used for grocery store runs and taking the kids to practices. My brother in law lives in California. He is thinking about getting solar panels for his house and an electric car. No electric bill or auto fuel costs. The main reason he is planning on it has nothing to do with the environment, he wants to save money.
rhino
Kick Henry Jackassowski
Once Exxon figures out how to make more money off of alternative energy, it'll happen. I don't think that'll happen until necessity makes it so. Until then dead dinosaurs are where it's at.
mongooz
.
i agree that changes need made and now. we should have moved FAR beyond what we have. we WERE making cars smaller and more efficient in the late 70's thru 80's, but then big auto/big oil convinced the consumers that bigger......WAY BIGGER/FASTER was the way to go. who in THE FUCK needs a 450 HP SUV? what the actual fuck? same goes for all the super car bullshit. (sorry OGG). i had a mustang gt back in 1985, and that was plenty fast enough for me, and the damn thing still got 22 mpg on the highway.
i spent a little over 2 years with NO CAR. mountain bike and city bus. it didn't work. things are built just too damn far away from each other. the goddamn bus was constantly blowing off stops. and when it did, in the fucking rain, i had a 7 mile walk to work, or home. NO GO.
so been there, done that. doesn't work, except for in large downtown cities, where everything is right around the block. not clear across town.
Help!I'maRock!
Mediocringly Derivative
My problem with the climate change deniers is pretty simple. Using the sun for energy is completely free. All we need is efficient ways to harness it directly. Why wouldn't we do that instead of all these crazy inefficient methods?
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
Yah, I am out in the woods in Idaho. So, until there are more charging stations, it is my turbo diesel for now. Electric car later.
Pine Apple Slim
Kick Henry Jackassowski
I ticks me off that you can't buy a little 4 cyl 5 speed manual that gets 40mpg hwy and doesn't cost as much as a darn house, like my old 77 Toyota Corolla.
mongooz
.
well, you know.....all those computers and sensors cost money. they 'supposedly' make the cars cleaner.....unless you happen to have a volkswagen, then maybe not so much.
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
Totally. Old school style economy cars like those should be part of the exit strategy from fossil fuels. But they apparently don't sell, or provide sufficient profit margin, or both. My wife's new Mazda CX-5 gets pretty darned good mileage for a little ute (29mpg is her average) and is really nice, but there are not very many comfortable little sedans, hatchbacks, and wagons with even better mileage and front wheel drive. There are a few, but not many. And good luck on a 5 speed.
OGG
Master of the Meh
Why are you sorry?
Nobody "needs" a Supercar. They exist because their is a market for them. Most of them are never daily drivers. The vast majority of them rarely get driven at all. A Supercar is no different than a 200W Marshall... no one needs it, lots of people want it.
In my case, the closest two cars I ever had to "Supercar" status were my Porsche 930S and my GT-R. When I had the Porsche, I drove a Honda every day that was cheap and efficient. With the GT-R, it spent 99.9% of its time in the garage. Meanwhile, I'm out driving around in a FIAT that gets ludicrously good mileage and was barely $16K brand new, fully loaded after all of the sales and rebates.
I don't disagree with you at all, but it's the Mustang GT 500 Shelby Cobra Mach 1 VST blah blah and the Corvettes that are the bigger "issue". These things are attainable and cheap. They are everywhere all the time. Millions of them. Nobody needs one of those either, yet they are hugely popular daily drivers that suck down gas like crazy.
That seems much crazier to me.
shoeless
Riffin'
Yeah, but then you have to pay the software developers to get the answers you want out of all those sensors.
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