OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Kerouac said:
How so? Fox News blatantly lies nearly as often as CNN and MSNBC combined. Considering it's the network for right-wing propaganda, that's pretty telling.
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Ok, let's look at the numbers...

Fox 58%
NBC 45%

I'm going to leave CNN out of the equation...because we're only discussing Fox and NBC, specifically MSNBC...by the numbers there is a 13% difference between the 2 networks reliability...arguing that MSNBC is less biased because they only lie just under 50% of the time then fox who lie just over 50% of the time is an exercise in sophistry...both networks are indefensible under those numbers...

I'm not arguing a general media bias, Andy, I'm arguing the specific biases of 2 specific networks...and I'm trying to do it from a non-partisan point of view...for me personally neither network represents my ideology...

What I'm trying to get across with everything I've said today is that we as a people seem to have lost our ability to discuss and debate without it becoming an us vs them argument...that's why I broke my silence here...
 
jelloman said:
Ok, let's look at the numbers...

Fox 58%
NBC 45%

I'm going to leave CNN out of the equation...because we're only discussing Fox and NBC, specifically MSNBC...by the numbers there is a 13% difference between the 2 networks reliability...arguing that MSNBC is less biased because they only lie just under 50% of the time then fox who lie just over 50% of the time is an exercise in sophistry...both networks are indefensible under those numbers...

I'm not arguing a general media bias, Andy, I'm arguing the specific biases of 2 specific networks...and I'm trying to do it from a non-partisan point of view...for me personally neither network represents my ideology...

What I'm trying to get across with everything I've said today is that we as a people seem to have lost our ability to discuss and debate without it becoming an us vs them argument...that's why I broke my silence here...
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I think you missed my point; Fox News specifically has impeded political discourse in our nation. You can't attribute that to any other news network. They're responsible for this us vs. them breakdown, as their viewership steadily refuses to believe any other news outlet. It's not a case of having a preference (such as I prefer the BBC) but a case of them outright believing that anything less than a Fox News report is a biased, liberal media conspiracy. So what happens when Fox News doesn't unite behind Trump? Their own viewership accuses them of becoming soft on issues and slowly turning into "another" liberal news station. Fox is reaping what it's sown, and it's taking the GOP down with it, because of their biased, propaganda based actions. Again, you don't see that happening with any other network.
 
jelloman said:
we as a people seem to have lost our ability to discuss and debate without it becoming an us vs them argument.
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i think that discussions and debate would be much more useful if both sides (but GOP especially) would climb the hell down off their 'platforms'. it's gotten to the point that each side takes a stand that if ANY points of their platform are the subject of discusion, then it's FLAMES ON!! and that's bullshit. and it's also why NOTHING can get done in congress.
 
Kerouac said:
I think you missed my point; Fox News specifically has impeded political discourse in our nation. You can't attribute that to any other news network. They're responsible for this us vs. them breakdown, as their viewership steadily refuses to believe any other news outlet. It's not a case of having a preference (such as I prefer the BBC) but a case of them outright believing that anything less than a Fox News report is a biased, liberal media conspiracy. So what happens when Fox News doesn't unite behind Trump? Their own viewership accuses them of becoming soft on issues and slowly turning into "another" liberal news station. Fox is reaping what it's sown, and it's taking the GOP down with it, because of their biased, propaganda based actions. Again, you don't see that happening with any other network.
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Ok...the creation of Fox news could certainly be defined as the bellwetherof a change in political discourse, but the impeding of discourse was not made any less of an issue by the moving of MS-NBC to become the biased left news outlet it has become...and I'm sure if their viewers were unhappy about a stance they took on a candidate their reaction would be no less vehement...both networks serve as a haven for certain segments of the population to feel they have a voice...
 
Kerouac said:
Just off the top of my head our gun death epidemic and lack of health care for every citizen is both archaic and an embarrassment.
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We don't have a gun death epidemic.

We do have a sensationalism epidemic.

I support health care for all people, so I agree with you there.
 
jelloman said:
Ok...the creation of Fox news could certainly be defined as the bellwetherof a change in political discourse, but the impeding of discourse was not made any less of an issue by the moving of MS-NBC to become the biased left news outlet it has become...and I'm sure if their viewers were unhappy about a stance they took on a candidate their reaction would be no less vehement...both networks serve as a haven for certain segments of the population to feel they have a voice...
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Let's compare viewership between Fox and MSNBC (based off 2015, primetime views only): Fox has 1.64 million people tune in, whereas MSNBC has 525k. If we go ahead and assume that Fox and MSNBC are equally biased (which for the record, I do not believe to be accurate at all), then roughly 1.1 million more Fox viewers are being fed propaganda and punditry every night.
 
Kerouac said:
Let's compare viewership between Fox and MSNBC (based off 2015, primetime views only): Fox has 1.64 million people tune in, whereas MSNBC has 525k. If we go ahead and assume that Fox and MSNBC are equally biased (which for the record, I do not believe to be accurate at all), then roughly 1.1 million more Fox viewers are being fed propaganda and punditry every night.
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Isn't it amazing that in a nation with a population of 300+ million 1.64 million people have that much influence on the political climate?
 
wagdog said:
We don't have a gun death epidemic.

We do have a sensationalism epidemic.

I support health care for all people, so I agree with you there.
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We're number 12 worldwide in annual gun deaths. You could argue that epidemic is not the best word choice, but that doesn't change the fact that we're the only first-world country in the Top 20.
 
jelloman said:
Isn't it amazing that in a nation with a population of 300+ million 1.64 million people have that much influence on the political climate?
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Not when you look at voter turnout and political participation. This was also only during prime time, remember.
 
I like watching Fox News because I like yelling at the tv. I like watching MSNBC because they're so smug, they unwittingly expose the hypocrisy in the message. I don't watch CNN because Wolf Blitzer is horrible.
 
jelloman said:
Isn't it amazing that in a nation with a population of 300+ million 1.64 million people have that much influence on the political climate?
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well.....that's what you have when money is so involved.
go back to when campaigns were publicly funded, each candidate getting 'x' dollars and that's it, no outside money, and i think the political landscape would change dramatically. but that will never happen, big corps won't allow it.
 
jelloman said:
Not even remotely...

I have been staying out of this thread because I find it incredibly one-sided, partisan and incredibly insulting...and I also understand the futility of explaining why I prefer the government of my country not tell me how I'm supposed to think or what to believe...
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So passing laws telling people who they can and can't marry is not telling you what to believe?
 
jaxn slim said:
See also climate change denial and toppling foreign governments.
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I think my favorite thing republican candidates say "I'm not a scientist so I don't know if climate change is real". Well they aren't doctors either and I bet if they went to 100 doctors and 97 of them said take this pill or you will die, I am pretty sure they would take the pill.
 
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