Lots of scales, limited memory capacity

David_

David_

Facepalmist
So, I've been working on some scales lately. Instructor said we're going to go over 12 scales, 1 per week.

First week, get the scale down fine.

Second week, next scale down mostly fine, but going back to the first scale and it's not as crisply imbedded in my memory as it was last week.

10 weeks to go. Lots of new data to push old data into foggy recesses of my mind.

Is that the nature of this game, or will this become easier once my brain picks up some pattern.

Or am I fucked? :)
 
Yes it's the nature of the game...yes it gets easier as you develop pattern memory...yes you are fucked...

Have a nice day!:Wave:
 
Well, the image with the blue items circled is the pattern I learned last week. I haven't highlighted all the notes (left off the F, G and A on the 6th string) Start on the C and go up and then back down.
I basically know the notes on the 5th and 6th strings, but I'm not lightning quick with them. I'm slow figuring out notes on the 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings.
I'm learning the intervals. From the C to the F is a perfect fourth, and I can work my way through intervals 1 through 8, albeit slowly. Some come much faster than others.

The diagram with the red is the one I'm working on this week.

So I have a mishmash of knowledge. I know some intervals, I know some notes, and I can memorize the pattern based on sheer mental energy without considering anything...



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OK. Maybe my coloring of the notes added confusion. Maybe it didn't. Let me try to reclarify....

The first scale is highlighted in purple below. We start on the C on the 5th string, 3rd fret. We then move to the D on the 5th string 5th fret, etc. I was instructed not to stop at the C that's an octave away from my starting note, and proceed to incorporate additional scale notes on the 1st, 2nd and 6th strings. I didn't higlight those.

The second scale is highlighted in red, the first 8 notes. Again, just highlighting the first 8, not including additional notes on the 1st, 2nd, third string.

Was my coloring of the notes in the first post confusing? I was just trying to highlight notes.


OK, so here's how I can approach the scales, with my limited knowledge.

1. If I start on a note, I can use a pattern of whole steps and half steps to figure out the scale. So I start on C, count a whole step and go to D, the a whole step to E, but in the middle of the scale, for example lets say I'm at G, I may lose count as to where I am in the whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step pattern and lose track.

2. If I start on C, I can count a major second to the D, then a major third to E, a perfect fourth to F. This pattern works moderately well, as I can see most of those intervals up through an octave. Beyond an octave, I'm not sure what to do. Do I start over with that note as the root note and count up 2nds, 3rds and 4ths, etc?

3. I can memorize the notes of the neck and just count through the scales and know what notes to land on. C > D > E etc. Problem is, I don't know the names of the notes on the fretboard. Maybe I should start here?

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You're correct in saying start over at the octave and maintain the whole/half steps, and also learning all the notes on the fretboard is a great idea....but I think Mark and Andy will have better answers for you in general for this type of method.

As I'm self taught (as much as anybody is, nobody learns in a vacuum), I don't actually understand the purpose of doing this. At least, I'm not sure what level you're at playing wise (forget theory), but I personally feel that scales should be taught when they become relevant to the music you want to play. What I mean by that is when I started playing, I wanted to sound like Jimmy Page...the ONLY scales I needed to learn were the Major and minor pentatonic, that got me 99% of the notes that Jimmy Page typically uses. I just feel it's more useful to have a direct connection between what you're currently hearing/wanting to play and what you're actually practising.
 
mosiddiqi said:
You're correct in saying start over at the octave and maintain the whole/half steps, and also learning all the notes on the fretboard is a great idea....but I think Mark and Andy will have better answers for you in general for this type of method.

As I'm self taught (as much as anybody is, nobody learns in a vacuum), I don't actually understand the purpose of doing this. At least, I'm not sure what level you're at playing wise (forget theory), but I personally feel that scales should be taught when they become relevant to the music you want to play. What I mean by that is when I started playing, I wanted to sound like Jimmy Page...the ONLY scales I needed to learn were the Major and minor pentatonic, that got me 99% of the notes that Jimmy Page typically uses. I just feel it's more useful to have a direct connection between what you're currently hearing/wanting to play and what you're actually practising.
Click to expand...

I'm a novice player, and a crappy one at that. :)

Thanks for the feedback, Mosiddiqi.
 
David_ said:
I'm a novice player, and a crappy one at that. :)

Thanks for the feedback, Mosiddiqi.
Click to expand...

:grin: cool, I guess I'm a big fan of practising whatever makes you want to play MORE!!..especially when you're starting out, I think you can get bogged down in "I need to learn all these scales to sound good" when the truth is you really don't. If your time is limited and you're into playing rock, then I think drilling the major scale in the way you're being shown is actually almost a waste of time. I say "almost" because anything you work at music wise is gaining you something. It's just a matter of whether it's efficient in getting you to where you want to be :)

Over to the real teachers. :embarrassed:
 
David_ said:
OK. Maybe my coloring of the notes added confusion. Maybe it didn't. Let me try to reclarify....

The first scale is highlighted in purple below. We start on the C on the 5th string, 3rd fret. We then move to the D on the 5th string 5th fret, etc. I was instructed not to stop at the C that's an octave away from my starting note, and proceed to incorporate additional scale notes on the 1st, 2nd and 6th strings. I didn't higlight those.

The second scale is highlighted in red, the first 8 notes. Again, just highlighting the first 8, not including additional notes on the 1st, 2nd, third string.

Was my coloring of the notes in the first post confusing? I was just trying to highlight notes.


OK, so here's how I can approach the scales, with my limited knowledge.

1. If I start on a note, I can use a pattern of whole steps and half steps to figure out the scale. So I start on C, count a whole step and go to D, the a whole step to E, but in the middle of the scale, for example lets say I'm at G, I may lose count as to where I am in the whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step pattern and lose track.

2. If I start on C, I can count a major second to the D, then a major third to E, a perfect fourth to F. This pattern works moderately well, as I can see most of those intervals up through an octave. Beyond an octave, I'm not sure what to do. Do I start over with that note as the root note and count up 2nds, 3rds and 4ths, etc?

3. I can memorize the notes of the neck and just count through the scales and know what notes to land on. C > D > E etc. Problem is, I don't know the names of the notes on the fretboard. Maybe I should start here?

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Okay, that's a lot better... I thought maybe your teacher gave it to you highlighted like that- I've seen similar "blocked" examples in books before and it looked a bit clumsy. The ones you circled are much better!

I'll skip to three first; absolutely! It doesn't need to be perfect, but remember that each note on the fretboard is a half-step, so even if you only start by memorizing the note names on each string's position markers, you can quickly figure out what comes next. Take it slowly and memorize the E + A at 3, 5, 7, 9, and 12 to start. When you've got that nailed, add the D, then later the G, etc.

As for #1, you may need to slow back a little and try not to rush through the scale. Puttng on a metronome at 50 or 60 BPM and playing through it with whole notes will give you a bit of extra time to focus.

For #2, you do exactly that... the interval relationship continues repeating.
 
One thing that I have my students do once they learn the roots out of the CAGED shapes is to build the major scales within each shape but in teh beginning we just number each note - we aren't worrying about a specific key with specific notes as we are learning the "landscape" of the major scale as it repeats all over the fretboard. You start recognizing where ideas repeat everywhere very quickly because you are seeing how the notes relate to the root instead of being a grab bag of letter names. We learn the note names too but for right now try this approach where you write out the scales on blank neck paper "Root, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, Root, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 " and so on. You'll start seeing the patterns quicker.
 
mosiddiqi said:
...I personally feel that scales should be taught when they become relevant to the music you want to play. What I mean by that is when I started playing, I wanted to sound like Jimmy Page...the ONLY scales I needed to learn were the Major and minor pentatonic, that got me 99% of the notes that Jimmy Page typically uses. I just feel it's more useful to have a direct connection between what you're currently hearing/wanting to play and what you're actually practising.
Click to expand...

mosiddiqi said:
...If your time is limited and you're into playing rock, then I think drilling the major scale in the way you're being shown is actually almost a waste of time. I say "almost" because anything you work at music wise is gaining you something. It's just a matter of whether it's efficient in getting you to where you want to be
Click to expand...

Probably the best advice for just about any level of player :thu:
 
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