How to book gigs or find someone to do so for you?

BlockInlay

BlockInlay

Octavate.band
So my band has many gigs under our belt, solid recorded material, positive record reviews, live and record air play, a small amount of attention on Spotify and social media... we’re reliable and dependable too.

But, we seem to suck at booking gigs. We either get ripped off by the booker, stiffed by the venue, or nobody shows up. What’s the typical move here? Hire a promoter? A manager? A booker? ??
 
There's a reason that road managers are big guys and/or bring muscle with them at the end of the night to settle with the house. Don't mess around -- have the entire band (and anyone else you've got with you) deal with the house at the end of the night. If they choose not to pay the agreed upon rate, let them know that you'll be grabbing some top-shelf liquor from the bar (or whatever else isn't nailed down) in lieu of payment. "Do that and I'll call the cops!" will be their response, but not ONE TIME have I seen them actually call them. Why? They know they're ripping you off and don't want to have to explain that to the cops -- or their boss.

Sounds shitty? You bet it is. But they will learn not to fuck with you in the future. Always have more muscle than the house in these situations in case shit goes sideways.
 
^^^^ That is possibly one of the stupidest posts I think I've ever seen here. No, being a bully - while breaking the law - really isn't how to get ahead in life. I used to book a club and if any shithead did that, the very best he'd receive would be a lifetime ban from the premises.

@BlockInlay - you can PM me if you want more info. One thing I do not see in your post is any mention of your draw, or how you promote shows. Maybe an oversight, but TBH this is the giant gap in understanding for a lot of 'baby bands' - they think their role is to "bring the music," and that the people coming through the door are the club's job.

Bottom line, that's not so. Not saying it's fair, but if you want good gigs, you need to bring paying customers to the bar. If you're not willing to maintain the web presence, send the email blasts, put up fliers, keep in contact with local radio, the arts weekly, etc. etc. etc. then you need to hire someone else to do that. That would perhaps be a manager; a booking agent would come along once you have a steady draw and could make the booking agent money. You can PM me if you want breakdowns on how this all works.

TLDR: the band needs to promote shows and build a draw; once there, you have choices.
 
We’re promoting the best we can but could use some help to increase our efficiency. Biggest draw we’ve had was 30-40 people in Manhattan. That isn’t much. We use social media, radio spots, interviews, I think th email blasts are sorely lacking.

I’ll hit you up on PM when things slow down later today man. Thank you
 
Danhedonia said:
^^^^ That is possibly one of the stupidest posts I think I've ever seen here. No, being a bully - while breaking the law - really isn't how to get ahead in life. I used to book a club and if any shithead did that, the very best he'd receive would be a lifetime ban from the premises.
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I'm not about breaking laws or getting physical, but I have noticed that I don't get messed with at all as opposed to much less physically imposing people in the same contexts. People suck.
 
I keep thinking about this post. I generally play the same places and even new places around here don't fuck around with working bands, so maybe my perception is a little distorted. If a band gets ripped off these days they start a Facebook war with the venue, too. Always looks bad for both parties but the venues seem to want to avoid any of that these days unless they are run by people who don't have much experience in the business.

It seems like getting gis around here entails constant contact with the bookers via email and even showing up at the venue and schmoozing until a relationship is formed. There are a TON of bands around here these days and not so many venues that pay well so its a very competitive environment.
 
Psychotronic said:
There's a reason that road managers are big guys and/or bring muscle with them at the end of the night to settle with the house. Don't mess around -- have the entire band (and anyone else you've got with you) deal with the house at the end of the night. If they choose not to pay the agreed upon rate, let them know that you'll be grabbing some top-shelf liquor from the bar (or whatever else isn't nailed down) in lieu of payment. "Do that and I'll call the cops!" will be their response, but not ONE TIME have I seen them actually call them. Why? They know they're ripping you off and don't want to have to explain that to the cops -- or their boss.

Sounds shitty? You bet it is. But they will learn not to fuck with you in the future. Always have more muscle than the house in these situations in case shit goes sideways.
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This is hillarious and a great way to end up getting your ass kicked or in jail.

The cops don’t care about what you pay a band. If you steal liquor in Ohio you will end up in jail no questions asked. Not to mention anyone in the bar business for any amount of time is not going to be intimidated by some musicians. Or a “big guy”. Bring the biggest one you’ve got, I’ve more than likely had a long night and could use a break. Not to mention that we tend to be armed.

Much better to approach it like Mark. Build a relationship, be professional, and do what you’re being paid for and you shouldn’t have a problem.
 
I’d also add. Since most bars and venues have relationships with each other, paying New Jersey tough guy is a perfect way to ensure no one will book you in the future. It happens all of the time. The people that are assholes just disappear because no one wants to work with them. No one is irreplaceable.
 
Psychotronic said:
There's a reason that road managers are big guys and/or bring muscle with them at the end of the night to settle with the house. Don't mess around -- have the entire band (and anyone else you've got with you) deal with the house at the end of the night. If they choose not to pay the agreed upon rate, let them know that you'll be grabbing some top-shelf liquor from the bar (or whatever else isn't nailed down) in lieu of payment. "Do that and I'll call the cops!" will be their response, but not ONE TIME have I seen them actually call them. Why? They know they're ripping you off and don't want to have to explain that to the cops -- or their boss.

Sounds shitty? You bet it is. But they will learn not to fuck with you in the future. Always have more muscle than the house in these situations in case shit goes sideways.
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0EC6482F-392B-4641-9331-5CEAD47BA019.jpeg


Is this where you do most of your gigging?
 
I think also one thing to consider about @Psychotronic post is that he does a lot of travel gigs where there are not the kinds of relationships that we are able to foster locally. It’s way easier to rip off a band that is only in town for a night or two with no immediate local repercussions.
 
No, I will say that what I referred to is strictly bar stuff in the NY/NJ area, and has no bearing on my personal touring experiences at all. I don't know what it's like where you guys are, but this is from my personal experiences playing bars here. These club owners/bookers will screw you at every/any opportunity. When we were poor college kids and were doing this for actual money to live on, we learned quickly that we had to operate that way or we weren't going to eat that week. I can remember once instance where the booker decided she wasn't going to pay us, so the singer and bass player in the band surreptitiously stole all of the stage mikes. I got a phone call the next morning about them being missing and said I knew nothing about it, but that I might know something if you'd, y'know -- PAY US what you owe us. They did, and they got their mikes back. We went into every club wanting to be a friendly partnership, but would not take any bullshit either.

And, like I said, cops were NEVER called in any of these instances and they were settled in other ways every single time. But we got paid. Sure, these may be extreme examples, but my point is that clubs are not your friend (most of the time).

@Danhedonia I don't consider fighting for the money that you earned -- and was agreed upon by the place of business -- being a bully. Quite the opposite. When you find other successful recourse under those circumstances, let me know. But please don't ever try to convince me that most clubs aren't unscrupulous assholes. Maybe where you live they aren't. But I've dealt with this for years, and we were not the first band that operated this way by a long shot.
 
I've never once gotten physical, or stolen liquor, or broken their windows, or ended up in jail -- never had to. Paying us what they owed us was way cheaper than the alternative. Like I said, the first couple of times not getting paid were enough to force us to play their game their way.

It must be nice where you guys play -- to never have had to deal with that! Although, this is older stuff, and hasn't happened to me in a long time. Also, I don't play a lot clubs these days.
 
I worked at the Middle East in Cambridge, MA. In NY I also knew people who worked at the Knitting Factory, Mercury Lounge, and Brownie's (RIP). Any cheating, screwing over, etc., is a business conversation.

You don't turn your dissatisfaction with a business conversation into petty criminality. There's no conversation to be had here, it's just a dumb thing to say. We all have bad moments, I'm going to say that post was perhaps yours.

If you feel like you've been defrauded by a promoter, please feel free to PM me and I am happy to do what little I can to help that not happen in the future.
 
Ah good old Brownie's! KF, ML, Brownie's -- all nice places.

Once again, I will say that this was THEIR game, not ours. We'd had enough places say, "Sorry fellas, but we're not paying you. Whaddya gonna do about it?". Walking away empty handed got tired really fast. I'd love to hear what recourse a band in that situation has, in your EXPERIENCE. Mine was the above. That you luckily have no experience with those kinds of places doesn't mean they don't exist. Again, this wasn't something we asked for, but occasionally had little choice. I've played some great rooms, some really shady ones. Usually the great rooms don't play that. I'm 51, I started playing clubs at 16, that's a good span of time to have experienced as well as fought back against shitty clubs. You screw me, I'm gonna screw you back, it's that simple, and I make no apologies for it. Glad that you had nothing but shiny happy experiences, though.
 
I have been stiffed a couple of times ( only twice in a bout at leats 5,000 shows aint bad) and each time I just left, and never played the clubs again and warned all of my musician friends about the practice.
in my area Showing ones ass in a violent manner is a good way to get beaten,shot and arrested .The Club owners pay off the cops and if the cops are called your ass is going to jail with at the very least as face full of pepper spray.They dont care about what you are supposed to get paid.

The funniest thing was about 15 years ago a band was sent home after the first set,I mean they went on break and the owner told them to pack up and go as they were horrid. The band Leader took the owner to Small Claims court and said he had a Verbal Contract and a witness that agreed they had been contracted to play 4 sets for a certain amount. The Judge threw the case out,and that guy never worked again as he was Blacklisted.
 
I have plenty of experience; I also tour managed.

I just don't wade into conversations trying to extoll criminality with silly bravado. YMMV.
 
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