how good is a $4500(or more) guitar?

mystixboi1

mystixboi1

Kick Henry Jackassowski
How good can a guitar get?

OK… so I’ve been working my ass off since I graduated college(16 years ago) to get my small collection to the point where I am really happy with what I have. I have a few staples that I hope I never have to sell(my PRS CU22, EB MM Y2D and a few partscasters that I put together), but the rest seem to be ever revolving. Right now, I also have a Suhr Modern Satin and a PRS Vela that I am really vibing with. I don’t see them moving any time soon.

I caught myself looking at some other Music Man’s and Kauer’s recently. But before I clicked on the guitar configurator on the Kauer website, I stopped myself. I asked myself, how great can a guitar actually get? I mean, my PRS CU22 is amazing guitar. Fit, finish and tone are all top notch. Even my Suhr is their bottom of the line model at $2000, but it’s sick. Top notch work all around and it pretty much plays itself.

But then I see $4500 Suhr’s, PRS, Kauer’s, and other brands… when you get to that level of pricing, what are you paying for? Is it that the luthier’s at that much better? are the components that much better?

I’d like to think my gear is on the about average … It’s definitely not cheap, but it’s definitely not in the upper echelon, but the PRS, Suhr, and Music Man are all excellent. What someone pays for a $5000 guitar, what more are they getting?

And for the record, I would have no problem getting a Kauer in the future!!!
 
On an electric, I sort of feel like it's diminishing returns. It's kind of like a high end audio system; once you hit a certain threshold our improvements can get very small. Is $5k worth of A/D conversion worth it if you've already got "professional" grade conversion? Well, it could be if the rest of your chain is good enough to warrant it, but even then it's maybe a 5% increase overall. Switching from consumer grade A/D to professional was probably 15-20% difference, if not more, so is the 5% increase enough to make the difference?

On acoustic instruments it becomes a totally different story, whether you're dealing with high end production models or a custom luthier. But when it comes to electric I think you have to really know exactly what you want and be satisfied with a 5% improvement, rather than an epiphany. My Collings is a KILLER acoustic and when I shot it out against a lot of stock Martins with similar specs, it blew them away. When I compared it to some Santa Cruz and Bourgeois instruments? Much smaller improvement even there.
 
With boutique guitars/amps/effects, you are employing a single luthier or small team, working with quality materials, to make a product that is as close to perfect as possible. Gibson and Fender charge those prices, but just can't give you that quality at the same price. They have to charge more. PRS comes close, but they're still a much larger operation.

Also, I don't think you should buy any boutique gear. Because if everything isn't perfect, you're going to have a difficult time re-selling it and you'll take a massive financial hit. Better to buy mainstream used gear you can flip.
 
I have tried Suhr's and the PRS's. They just don't play well with me. It took me a long time before I found a Gibson Les Paul that played the way that I wanted it too, but when I found the right one - it was gold. I never played a Kauer that worked for until 2014 when I went to his open house - I was just blown away. These are the Starliners series and I have been Gassing one ever since.

For me, if you buy a Kauer, you are paying for quality. A lot of the details in the neck shaping, balance, build is done by Doug and Company and not a machine. Plus the Kauer line of instruments are consistent from one to another.
 
Kerouac said:
On an electric, I sort of feel like it's diminishing returns. It's kind of like a high end audio system; once you hit a certain threshold our improvements can get very small. Is $5k worth of A/D conversion worth it if you've already got "professional" grade conversion? Well, it could be if the rest of your chain is good enough to warrant it, but even then it's maybe a 5% increase overall. Switching from consumer grade A/D to professional was probably 15-20% difference, if not more, so is the 5% increase enough to make the difference?

On acoustic instruments it becomes a totally different story, whether you're dealing with high end production models or a custom luthier. But when it comes to electric I think you have to really know exactly what you want and be satisfied with a 5% improvement, rather than an epiphany. My Collings is a KILLER acoustic and when I shot it out against a lot of stock Martins with similar specs, it blew them away. When I compared it to some Santa Cruz and Bourgeois instruments? Much smaller improvement even there.
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Yep, for acoustic instruments the gain is much more pronounced. But even there the laws of diminishing returns applies.
 
A guitar's worth is up to the seller and the buyer. The seller charges what they feel is right and buyer accepts it or not. As for quality, that can depend on personal tastes and one's own ear. For me, I don't need to spend a fortune for an instrument to play the few, low-paying gigs I do. YMMV.
 
Its probably been 5 years since I've asked to have a guitar of that price taken down to play. There are differences I noticed but many of them revolve around touches that require a lot of additional time for fit and finish and not tone. Saying that I wasn't making the comparison with an absolute bottom feeder guitar either.
 
I dont consider resale as an issue in the decision to buy a $4000 > instrument.
If I'm paying that much I'd consider it a lifetimer.
Actually, my own lifetimer threshold is a good bit lower than that even.
 
We should try charting out the returns you get per dollar on guitars. Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a minute since I priced guitars.
The jump from $100 to $500 would be pretty great going from the lowest level Chinese imports to decent Chinese imports.
From $500 to $1000 would be a lot, too, roping in Mexican Fenders and low-end American Fenders, but less per dollar.
From $1000 to 2000 brings in some good brands like G&L, Fender Custom, and basic Gibsons.
Around the $2000-3000 range, you start bringing in the lower end of the boutique brands, lower-mid Gibsons, Heritage.
Once you get into the ~$4000 area, these guitars are hopefully more consistent and fine-tuned to your needs. As far as "objective" quality standards, you're probably only going to see 0-5% improvement for that extra $1000-2000 IMO. But sometimes that extra 5% in playability or whatever is all it takes to make that guitar "the one."
 
mystixboi1 said:
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OK… so I’ve been working my ass off since I graduated college(16 years ago) to get my small collection to the point where I am really happy with what I have.
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hahahahahaha .... no really....






HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
Personally I'd consider your PRS CU22, EB MM Y2D and Suhr way above the average and into the high end of production line guitars. You don't get better (and that's subjective) without paying a whole load more dosh for custom work. The Vela judging by the prices I see here would be at least upper mid range as well (£1200 approx).

A more average guitar IMHO is something like a Mexican Fender Strat (seeing them for about £450 at Andertons in the UK).
 
I don't believe in spending that much money on a guitar, I just don't think it's worth it at all. They're just tools to make music with. Considering you can put together a parts guitar with high quality parts to your exact specs for probably £500 (rough estimate), I don't see why anyone would want to pay much more. Then again I'm not really a perfectionist and hate tacky finishes, wood figuring etc so ymmv. And I appreciate some people don't enjoy that aspect of it, I like having a little project to work on to keep me busy.

Edit - that said I would probably pay the extra for a proper custom guitar from a luthier such as Feline Guitars if I had the cash and wanted a "guitar for life". His work looks awesome and I believe reasonably priced compared to something like a high end Gibson etc. The Feline contoured LP neck heel looks amazingly comfy and isn't available on anything else. I'd still not spend 4 grand on it though.
 
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Help!I'maRock! said:
With boutique guitars/amps/effects, you are employing a single luthier or small team, working with quality materials, to make a product that is as close to perfect as possible. Gibson and Fender charge those prices, but just can't give you that quality at the same price. They have to charge more. PRS comes close, but they're still a much larger operation.

Also, I don't think you should buy any boutique gear. Because if everything isn't perfect, you're going to have a difficult time re-selling it and you'll take a massive financial hit. Better to buy mainstream used gear you can flip.
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I agree with pretty much all of this. The boutique guitars I've owned have been a cut above, in most instances, similarly-priced offerings from the big guys. I also agree that PRS straddles that line. They're a larger company, than say, the Premier Builders Guild, but their quality control is first rate. You may not like the way they look or sound, but the build quality is always there.

Most of us have a number. For me, that number is $3,000. If it's going to cost that or more, it would have to be a very special instrument. Solid body electrics just aren't that hard to build compared to other instruments (and acoustic guitars), so once you get above 2K or so, IMO, your paying for build quality, custom options, and/or aesthetics. And all of that is perfectly fine.
 
With a large company: you're padding the bottom line

With a boutique company: your paying for originality and keeping a few people living indoors.

The rest can be argued is purely subjective.

All I can say is what I make exactly, you can't get anywhere else. You can get things that are similar but not exactly what I make. Same goes for almost all the names in be my business, only Saul Koll makes a Koll, a Huber a Huber ect ect.
 
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I couldn't tell you. The most expensive guitar I have ever played is my McFeely and it is worth every penny. I would love to get my hands on something in that range, but that won't happen until the kids are done with college or I win the lottery.
 
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