Uhh..OGG

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@OGG

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/msg/5931231705.html

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120W jazz rig....lol
120 Solid State Watts vs 120 Tube watts is the difference between a Prius and a Bugatti Veyron.

Yes, the JC 120 is ungodly loud on its own with two twelve inch speakers, but if it were tube powered at 120 it would be unusable.

I'm not so certain that driving that many speakers with the same power output is necessarily "good". I'd suspect that the overall volume capability is actually lower with that many speakers, but the lush spread is probably out of this world.

And NOBODY uses that amp for Jazz. Nobody.

That's the ultimate doom/icebreaking clean amp. Django doesn't use one, but James Hetfield does. You put the right disortion circuit in front of a JC and it will melt your face off.

Run a Tele or a Strat through it without fuzz, and the clean sound will bring you to tears. It has no equal. Some of the most vicious sounding guitar parts I've ever heard came out of that "clean machine" just by adding a RAT. Tube guys will always slag it for being SS, and therefore somehow inferior, but that amp was responsible for more platinum records in the 80s than Marshall, Mesa, Fender, Laney, Carvin etc combined. Oh, and Jazz guys like Stanley Jordan used them then too. Now they all use some other crap trying to be more edgy. Perfume on a pig... it's still jazz.
 
Nobody has a need for a full stack.

Desire, that's another thing!

My personal belief is every guitarist should own a full stack at some point in their life. There is nothing quite like feeling your sound pushing you forward.
In the 60s. a band I was in used a non-Vox version of this:
Vox%20copy.jpg


Fun to play through, but a real bitch to transport.
 
In the 60s. a band I was in used a non-Vox version of this:
Vox%20copy.jpg


Fun to play through, but a real bitch to transport.

There was definitely a time when the 100 watt amp was useful and maybe even required. But PA technology has improved significantly through the decades, which is why 5 to 50 watt amps have become more popular in recent years.
 
120 Solid State Watts vs 120 Tube watts is the difference between a Prius and a Bugatti Veyron.

Yes, the JC 120 is ungodly loud on its own with two twelve inch speakers, but if it were tube powered at 120 it would be unusable.

I love ya, OGG, but I have to correct this little bit as it's a giant pet peeve of mine.

Watts are watts are watts.

A "120 watt" solid state amp and a "120 watt" tube amp both deliver the same exact thing -- 120 watts RMS clean amplification.

The difference is that 120 watts on, say, a JC120 is at the end of the volume knob while a tube amp can keep going past the rating but the amp will no longer deliver a clean tone.

That's why I'm kinda impressed that Bugera sells the 1960 Infinium as a 150 watt amp. It's actually pretty close. The 1960 Infinium is based on a copy of the Marshall 1959 circuit (or, more specifically, the 1959RR Randy Rhoads) which is rated at 100 watts. Depending on the bias and the B+ voltage, though, these amps generally hit 150-170 balls-to-the-wall full tilt.

It's not that tube watts are somehow louder. It's that they're rated clean and that's nowhere near the end of the travel on the volume pot.
 
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I love ya, OGG, but I have to correct this little bit as it's a giant pet peeve of mine.

Watts are watts are watts.

A "120 watt" solid state amp and a "120 watt" tube amp both deliver the same exact thing -- 120 watts RMS clean amplification.

The difference is that 120 watts on, say, a JC120 is at the end of the volume knob while a tube amp can keep going past the rating but the amp will no longer deliver a clean tone.

That's why I'm kinda impressed that Bugera sells the 1960 Infinium as a 150 watt amp. It's actually pretty close. The 1960 Infinium is based on a copy of the Marshall 1959 circuit (or, more specifically, the 1959RR Randy Rhoads) which is rated at 100 watts. Depending on the bias and the B+ voltage, though, these amps generally hit 150-170 balls-to-the-wall full tilt.

It's not that tube watts are somehow louder. It's that they're rated clean and that's nowhere near the end of the travel on the volume pot.
A fair analysis.

The real difference is in "overdriving" the amp. A SS amp theoretically delivers the same tone regardless of volume. A tube amp only breaks up when "pushed", and an SS amp only breaks up by external or additional distortion circuitry correct?

In other words, you can play the SS amp much "quieter" by driving it artificially. A tube amp with tons of wattage and no power soak will blow your ears apart at break up volume.

Yes?
 
A fair analysis.

The real difference is in "overdriving" the amp. A SS amp theoretically delivers the same tone regardless of volume. A tube amp only breaks up when "pushed", and an SS amp only breaks up by external or additional distortion circuitry correct?

In other words, you can play the SS amp much "quieter" by driving it artificially. A tube amp with tons of wattage and no power soak will blow your ears apart at break up volume.

Yes?
You don't want solid state stuff actually distorting. It's ugly. It's not the soft clipping that rounds off the waveform that tubes give you but rather just a chop off the top.

Solid state stuff is set up to not distort on its own, ideally. 10 on the volume is before clipping. Tube amps clip in a pleasing way so nobody cares, so some amps start to clip at 4-5 on the volume knob. Tube amps are all different, though. Fender Twins can be clean up to and beyond 8.

I tend to run my Bugera 1960 Infinium at about the point where it barely just breaks up if I really wack the strings with my band, but my real dirt comes from pedals. It's not obscenely loud and fits nicely in the mix with drums, bass, keys, and keytar. It's definitely nowhere near as loud as that JC120 stack can get. LOL
 
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I love ya, OGG, but I have to correct this little bit as it's a giant pet peeve of mine.

Watts are watts are watts.

A "120 watt" solid state amp and a "120 watt" tube amp both deliver the same exact thing -- 120 watts RMS clean amplification.

The difference is that 120 watts on, say, a JC120 is at the end of the volume knob while a tube amp can keep going past the rating but the amp will no longer deliver a clean tone.

That's why I'm kinda impressed that Bugera sells the 1960 Infinium as a 150 watt amp. It's actually pretty close. The 1960 Infinium is based on a copy of the Marshall 1959 circuit (or, more specifically, the 1959RR Randy Rhoads) which is rated at 100 watts. Depending on the bias and the B+ voltage, though, these amps generally hit 150-170 balls-to-the-wall full tilt.

It's not that tube watts are somehow louder. It's that they're rated clean and that's nowhere near the end of the travel on the volume pot.

Isn't this just semantics? Watts aren't a measure of volume, they are a measure of electrical power. So like you said, the watt rating is for clean amplification but SS amps are designed to go clean all the way up where as tube amps can go far past their clean sound. Real world example, Guitar Heel used a 7 watt tube amp into a 1x12 cab and was totally fine, he was able to be heard along with a bass, 2 other guitars and drums. If he was playing a 7 watt SS amp, nobody would have heard him. Same thing when I was in my last band. I had a Fender Champion 100, 100 watts solid state, 2x12 cab. I couldn't be heard at practice with it cranked. Replaced it with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, 40 watt tube, 1x12 cab and I couldn't turn it up past 5 without being told to turn down.
 
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Isn't this just semantics? Watts aren't a measure of volume, they are a measure of electrical power. So like you said, the watt rating is for clean amplification but SS amps are designed to go clean all the way up where as tube amps can go far past their clean sound. Real world example, Guitar Heel used a 7 watt tube amp into a 1x12 cab and was totally fine, he was able to be heard along with a bass, 2 other guitars and drums. If he was playing a 7 watt SS amp, nobody would have heard him. Same thing when I was in my last band. I had a Fender Champion 100, 100 watts solid state, 2x12 cab. I couldn't be heard at practice with it cranked. Replaced it with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, 40 watt tube, 1x12 cab and I couldn't turn it up past 5 without being told to turn down.
Right, because the actual electrical measure of that GH's amp exceeded 7 watts.

Also... A lot of solid state amps come with shitty inefficient speakers. You could hit those speakers with the same exact electrical wattage from a tube amp and have the same exact volume issues.

Plug a solid state amp into that 1x12 cab and it'll probably be louder than with its stock speaker. I've got one of those Lil' Smokey amps that put out a single watt. If I plug it into my 4x12 it's a roaring beast that's just way too loud for the kids.
 
Right, because the actual electrical measure of that GH's amp exceeded 7 watts.

Yeah but OGG was saying a 120 watt tube vs a 120 SS was night and day in volume. I am guessing he wasn't measuring the 120 watt tube amps actual wattage past the point of clean, he was taking what the amp would be advertised at.
 
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