Thanks for the shaft Gibson, you're no better than Stalin!!!!

"Do they think we are idiots and can't tune our guitars?"

"I could always count on Gibson, now I'd rather slam my nuts in a car door."

Priceless.
 
From a marketing POV this may actually make more sense that is apparent at first blush. Gibson has historically tried to keep themselves in the top-tier and do very well selling $500 instruments for $3,000 and up. For a time they had a fair bit of competition for that top-tier from PRS, but PRS has so diluted their brand by offering high and low-end instruments under the same name that their brand position is quite meaningless. Unlike Fender, PRS, etc. every Gibson branded instrument is MIA, not pac-rim or Mexico. That is important to some peeps - just look at magazines like Guitar Aficionado to get a glimpse into what the people with big money are buying and why.

As the industry continues to be inundated by low-cost imports and the economy continues to shrink, focusing on the high-end, if done right, could pay long-term dividends in margins instead of units. I note Rickenbacker has done very well doing this from their beginnings, so the model does work.
 
Verne Andru said:
From a marketing POV this may actually make more sense that is apparent at first blush. Gibson has historically tried to keep themselves in the top-tier and do very well selling $500 instruments for $3,000 and up. For a time they had a fair bit of competition for that top-tier from PRS, but PRS has so diluted their brand by offering high and low-end instruments under the same name that their brand position is quite meaningless. Unlike Fender, PRS, etc. every Gibson branded instrument is MIA, not pac-rim or Mexico. That is important to some peeps - just look at magazines like Guitar Aficionado to get a glimpse into what the people with big money are buying and why.

As the industry continues to be inundated by low-cost imports and the economy continues to shrink, focusing on the high-end, if done right, could pay long-term dividends in margins instead of units. I note Rickenbacker has done very well doing this from their beginnings, so the model does work.
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PRS is a significantly smaller company than Gibson. And Rickenbacker is much, much smaller than PRS. It's amazing that either brand can even make it into a GC, nevermind sell the number of units necessary to stay there.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
PRS is a significantly smaller company than Gibson. And Rickenbacker is much, much smaller than PRS. It's amazing that either brand can even make it into a GC, nevermind sell the number of units necessary to stay there.
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That's like saying Bentley is smaller than GM - they each have their niche.

There's a very good argument to be made that, in a shrinking economy, carrying less inventory with higher margins to a market that isn't concerned with nickels+dimes is a good thing. Plus keeping their line MIA they aren't exporting currency and jobs to communist countries at a time when both are desperately needed at home.
 
Verne Andru said:
That's like saying Bentley is smaller than GM - they each have their niche.
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How many Bentleys do you see being sold by GM dealerships?

There's a very good argument to be made that, in a shrinking economy, carrying less inventory with higher margins to a market that isn't concerned with nickels+dimes is a good thing. Plus keeping their line MIA they aren't exporting currency and jobs to communist countries at a time when both are desperately needed at home.
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South Korea, where PRS' SE line are produced, most definitely isn't communist. The same cannot be said for Gibson's Epiphone line, which makes the entire MI segment profitable. So this idea that they're separate and Gibson doesn't produce instruments in other countries is very thinly veiled. It's also too political a discussion for this forum.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
How many Bentleys do you see being sold by GM dealerships?

South Korea, where PRS' SE line are produced, most definitely isn't communist. The same cannot be said for Gibson's Epiphone line, which makes the entire MI segment profitable. So this idea that they're separate and Gibson doesn't produce instruments in other countries is very thinly veiled. It's also too political a discussion for this forum.
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Where I live there are Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls, Porche, Maserati and Lamborghini dealerships within 2 blocks of me. So it really depends on your market niche - I never would have guessed so many of those expensive cars would sell, but those dealerships are springing up faster than Ford, Chrysler or GM. It's a sign of the times.

I didn't intend to make it "political" just pointing out something that some purists consider important. And given the title of this thread equates Gibson to Stalin, I don't think I'm at all out of line.
 
Verne Andru said:
Where I live there are Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls, Porche, Maserati and Lamborghini dealerships within 2 blocks of me. So it really depends on your market niche - I never would have guessed so many of those expensive cars would sell, but those dealerships are springing up faster than Ford, Chrysler or GM. It's a sign of the times.
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Guitar Center is like Wal-Mart. The employees there are barely qualified to sell Fords, and they're attempting to sell Bentleys. It's not that those higher end instruments/cars can't sell. But they don't sell in the numbers required to keep the spot on the wall in a volume environment, and the staff doesn't know how to sell them. This is the problem with the big box model.

I didn't intend to make it "political" just pointing out something that some purists consider important.
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Purists can't get out of their own way. They want something the companies they're "pure" about aren't interested in selling to them anymore. And the cognitive dissonance required to say that Gibson only makes MIA instruments is mind boggling.

And given the title of this thread equates Gibson to Stalin, I don't think I'm at all out of line.
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Internet memes and reality are obviously incongruous.
 
Verne Andru said:
Where I live there are Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls, Porche, Maserati and Lamborghini dealerships within 2 blocks of me. So it really depends on your market niche - I never would have guessed so many of those expensive cars would sell, but those dealerships are springing up faster than Ford, Chrysler or GM. It's a sign of the times.

I didn't intend to make it "political" just pointing out something that some purists consider important. And given the title of this thread equates Gibson to Stalin, I don't think I'm at all out of line.
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Again- the person who can drop 250k on a car can generally do it with out loosing sleep over it.

The person who can drop 25k on a car, is doing it with a loan.

Same applies to guitars. A 5000+ dollar guitar is easier to sell than a 2000 dollar guitar.
 
dougk said:
Again- the person who can drop 250k on a car can generally do it with out loosing sleep over it.

The person who can drop 25k on a car, is doing it with a loan.

Same applies to guitars. A 5000+ dollar guitar is easier to sell than a 2000 dollar guitar.
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And this, I believe, is the strategy Gibson is following. Where I live there are lots and lots of people with more money than brains. And there are even more having trouble giving their kids a descent lunch. The middle-class is collapsing so you either go up market or down. It wouldn't make sense for Gibson to try and race to the bottom. Tons of others doing that and they have Epiphone filling that niche anyway.

As for GC, they haven't been paying their suppliers for years and if they go down they'll take a lot of people like Fender along with them. By moving up market Gibson won't be as exposed [fewer units in the channel] and can move back to the a pre-internet/boutique model much easier than channel stuffers like PRS, etc.
 
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