Question: Preamp distortion vs. power tube distortion...

cvogue

cvogue

Yes, that's Oolong. :)
OK, so it seems that lots of people out there say that power tube distortion is the bees knees (Eddie Van Halen is always used as an example, cranked the amp, used a variac to avoid going deaf etc... got some of the coolest tones ever recorded). The amp purists bash preamp distortion due to it's fizzy/fuzzy/muddled nature.

So given that, how many of us crank the master volume on our amps and then bring up the channel volume to a reasonable practice/band level to achieve power tube distortion (maybe in conjunction with some preamp as well)?

Just wondering who here on MWGL has done this and wondering how it sounded. Don't have my amp here but at practice this Wednesday I may give it a shot... I think I've just been leery of going too loud in the past.

What say you?! Enquiring minds wanna know... :cool:
 
I loves me some overdriven 6CA7s.

Of course, the thing they never mention is that when you're crankin' out some power tube distortion, EVERYTHING is distorting, the preamp, the phase inverter (if there is one), and the power amp.

At home I run my amps through a Jet City Jettenuator. My drummer's loud enough that I can run my 100 watt head clean and loud and use pedals for dirt (which is the sound appropriate for my band), but if I had a different situation I'd probably use the attenuator live, too.
 
GilmourD said:
I loves me some overdriven 6CA7s.

Of course, the thing they never mention is that when you're crankin' out some power tube distortion, EVERYTHING is distorting, the preamp, the phase inverter (if there is one), and the power amp.

At home I run my amps through a Jet City Jettenuator. My drummer's loud enough that I can run my 100 watt head clean and loud and use pedals for dirt (which is the sound appropriate for my band), but if I had a different situation I'd probably use the attenuator live, too.
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Ahh, bloody good point GilmourD... if you have a multi channel amp (like I do) and you want one of them to be clean, but you're getting power tube distortion then... you've just whacked your clean channel! Well it's no longer going to be pristine clean by definition.

cvogue's having a "duh" moment here... thwap0
 
I LOVE power amp distortion. But it's hard to do at home. That's why I sold my HT40; even with an attenuator I was using earplugs. But as much as I love my Micro Terror I miss the spitting oscillations that a tube amp driven hard with fuzz can generate. So sometime soon I'm going to buy an OR15 so I can do that in 7.5 watt mode.
 
jp_nyc said:
I LOVE power amp distortion. But it's hard to do at home. That's why I sold my HT40; even with an attenuator I was using earplugs. But as much as I love my Micro Terror I miss the spitting oscillations that a tube amp driven hard with fuzz can generate. So sometime soon I'm going to buy an OR15 so I can do that in 7.5 watt mode.
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I have the same amp! So how high did you have to crank it to get power tube distortion? If you kept the channel volume down was it still too loud?

I'd be using it in a band situation... so it would be louder.
 
cvogue said:
So how high did you have to crank it to get power tube distortion?
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I was pushing the clean channel in modern mode to around 110db with stacked fuzz pedals to get crackling power amp distortion on top of the fuzz. And that was only scraping the surface of where that amp goes regarding volume. I have no idea what it sounds like dimed; I never even went halfway up. On vintage mode it will start to break up under 95db with humbuckers. But vintage can't handle much fuzz before it turns to shit. Which, admittedly, is the point. I'm talking about early Electric Wizard levels of chainsaw gain, so YMMV.
 
The best way to get smooth singing gain is for many little gain boosts along the way. Start with pickups that aren't too hot, then a gain boost on the pedal board, then an amp that uses 3 or 4 pre amp tubes, each one nudging the gain up a little more, and then finally warm power amp tubes that are working hard.

Whenever a segment along the way is slammed too hard (hot pickups into a pedal, a cranked fuzz box, slamming the input, or the gain channel smashing a cold power section) you get harsher artifacts. Sometimes it's a desirable sound, but it always happens at the expense of certain frequencies getting crushed or squished.
 
I'll have to say that I have a Tube Works amp head and 2x2 cab setup that I really like, and it uses a preamp tube for it's distortion channel. When I got it used, I totally fell in love with the clean channel, but the distortion channel went to fuzz way too fast for me. The beauty of the tube being in the preamp section is that if tube is changed, it doesn't have to be biased. Once I found that out, I switched the 12ax7 tube for an 12au7 tube and I am totally in love with the sound I get out of the distortion channel now - very warm and creamy sounding.

I do know that purists prefer the distortion to come from the power amp tubes, but I have found exactly what I want in the preamp section of this amp.

I will say that with my Fender DRRI, I use a Juice Box attenuator, when playing at home, that helps to saturate the power tubes and give me a nice warm overdriven tone.
 
Stratguy said:
I'll have to say that I have a Tube Works amp head and 2x2 cab setup that I really like, and it uses a preamp tube for it's distortion channel. When I got it used, I totally fell in love with the clean channel, but the distortion channel went to fuzz way too fast for me. The beauty of the tube being in the preamp section is that if tube is changed, it doesn't have to be biased. Once I found that out, I switched the 12ax7 tube for an 12au7 tube and I am totally in love with the sound I get out of the distortion channel now - very warm and creamy sounding.

I do know that purists prefer the distortion to come from the power amp tubes, but I have found exactly what I want in the preamp section of this amp.

I will say that with my Fender DRRI, I use a Juice Box attenuator, when playing at home, that helps to saturate the power tubes and give me a nice warm overdriven tone.
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Juice Box for the win!
 
I've always used the preamp distortion on my amp (laney gh50l) as it sounds good to my ears. I've never actually tried having the master all the way up and controlling the volume with channel gain :facepalm: I usually get a sound I'm happy with when I get to have the master above 1-2 which is far too loud for playing at home. I need a modeling amp :embarrassed:
 
cvogue said:
So given that, how many of us crank the master volume on our amps and then bring up the channel volume to a reasonable practice/band level to achieve power tube distortion (maybe in conjunction with some preamp as well)?
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it doesn't work like that. you can't get the power tubes to saturate unless you are putting preamp juice to them. just turning up the master and then only squeaking a little preamp to the power tubes will not drive them hard enough to get the sound you are referring to. both volume knobs have to be turned up. this is why all these amp companies are building 1 and 5 and 10 watt amps, because to get the power tube break up sound you have to crank the hell out of both the pre and power section.
i've got a Kustom 5 watt defender that is WAY to loud to crank in an apartment.

i would suggest an attenuator. that allows you to crank both sections of the amp and then hold back to volume going to the speakers. you just need some efficient speakers that put out good lows and low volumes.
 
I went through all three stages: Preamp, Power Amp and Pedal Distortion. There is no preference for any of the 3 as each one has its purpose in all forms of music. When I was young I preferred preamp distortion but I was playing heavy metal music of the times. Today I use more pedal overdrive in combination with power amp distortion. To accomplish the power amp distortion, I use low powered amps and work to get to the sweet spot of the amp. I use the pedals to color the drive as well as push the amp over the edge for increased drive.

Bottom line is there is a need for all three methods.

As of the above is for playing live or recording in a studio.

As for practicing at home, I just practice on my acoustic or use my iRig and Line 6 LivePodXT
 
I crank my master as high as I can, then set the channel gain to a nice breakup when volume is full on and/or picked aggressively. From there I have boosts or fuzz pedals for more gain.
 
Modern Saint said:
I went through all three stages: Preamp, Power Amp and Pedal Distortion. There is no preference for any of the 3 as each one has its purpose in all forms of music. When I was young I preferred preamp distortion but I was playing heavy metal music of the times. Today I use more pedal overdrive in combination with power amp distortion. To accomplish the power amp distortion, I use low powered amps and work to get to the sweet spot of the amp. I use the pedals to color the drive as well as push the amp over the edge for increased drive.

Bottom line is there is a need for all three methods.

As of the above is for playing live or recording in a studio.

As for practicing at home, I just practice on my acoustic or use my iRig and Line 6 LivePodXT
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I don't know why, but I always get a kick out of the thought of you playing heavy metal.
 
Chad said:
I don't know why, but I always get a kick out of the thought of you playing heavy metal.
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Probably because I am in my 50's now Chad! You can probably add this pic to the thread I had the other day.

Malisha 1983.jpg
 
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