yabba
Weird Pick Butt Person
yo, word
People that diss pop music...(rant)
- Thread starter mystixboi1
- Start date
ellengtrgrl
Guitar Old Timer
That's one perspective about music, and it is a valid one. It's just that there are other perspectives about it, that are just as valid. For some people music is instead songs about life, or something in the world that's bothering them (before it suffered from "send in the clones" syndrome, one of reasons I liked thrash metal so much, was due to the fact that the lyrics were often about social topics/issues, unlike the insipid "I want to get high/jump your bones", or power ballad lyrics that were so prevalent in the hair metal/cock rock that was popular at the time). It can also be about instrumental songs that make them say "wow!"
I do not begrudge pop stars for making tons of money/having hits performing songs that were in very many cases, written by song writers that are often well known for writing hit songs. It's great that they can. It's just that while many of these same pop stars seem to want me to listen to their music, they often dismiss non-pop music out of hand. That seems kind of "one way street" to me.
Pop music used to mean music that was popular with the masses at a specific time, regardless of its genre. Over the years, it evolved into an actual musical genre, usually represented by uber polished songs (hence the heavy use of autotune nowadays), and lyrics about predominantly about love and relationships (nothing wrong with that - just get tired of hearing nothing but those lyrics), written and produced in a formulaic/derivative manner, since doing so "is proven to make money" for the record companies. Oh well, that's the way things are. Many people like their music that way, because it's familiar, and in many cases a comforting thing in life for them. It's no different than the millions of fans who like the fact that AC/DC or Boston will always make albums that are no different that what they made sound and content wise 25 years ago (not that it's necessary to change things for change's sake).
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Dexter Inferno
Serious error
I will say one thing.
People who hate "pop" music just because of the genre it is in really miss out. A good song is a good song, no matter what genre it is in.
It may be well crafted, it may have great lyrics or a fantastic hook, you never know.
I'm a massive Benny Andersson fan. Now that was some seriously well crafted pop that has never been topped since. IMO.
And I've studied it quite intensely. The level of detail in those mixes is ridiculous. And the hooks, man. Hooks all over the fucking place.
In the keyboards, guitar, lead vocals, backing vocals (all 8 layers of them), even in the bass.
Something many forget is the classic ABBA stuff is really rock'n'roll songs just with different instrumentation, and a distinct classical influence. Nothing wrong with that.
Let's be honest. Who in here wouldn't want to write timeless songs that people will sing along to in 40 years? Everyone who says no is either an idiot, delusional or plain wrong. Well there's the odd metal guy, but those usually tend to eventually grow up. I did.
Genre arrogance really annoys me, and the worst of the bunch are metal guys. And the jazz crowd. Coincidently the genres depending on musical wanking.
People who hate "pop" music just because of the genre it is in really miss out. A good song is a good song, no matter what genre it is in.
It may be well crafted, it may have great lyrics or a fantastic hook, you never know.
I'm a massive Benny Andersson fan. Now that was some seriously well crafted pop that has never been topped since. IMO.
And I've studied it quite intensely. The level of detail in those mixes is ridiculous. And the hooks, man. Hooks all over the fucking place.
In the keyboards, guitar, lead vocals, backing vocals (all 8 layers of them), even in the bass.
Something many forget is the classic ABBA stuff is really rock'n'roll songs just with different instrumentation, and a distinct classical influence. Nothing wrong with that.
Let's be honest. Who in here wouldn't want to write timeless songs that people will sing along to in 40 years? Everyone who says no is either an idiot, delusional or plain wrong. Well there's the odd metal guy, but those usually tend to eventually grow up. I did.
Genre arrogance really annoys me, and the worst of the bunch are metal guys. And the jazz crowd. Coincidently the genres depending on musical wanking.
Highernoon
Burninator
Prog guys too.
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
A good song is indeed a good song. And genre snobs (or, really, any One True Way thinkers) are awfully tiresome when they lack perspective.
It's a balancing act between truly enjoying your own preferences, and then going one step further and thinking that others ought to feel the same way. I don't mind that 100,000 kids risk dehydration and sunstroke to impoverish themselves watching Kanye at Coachella -- I'm just very grateful to be back in New Mexico, enjoying the night sky and listening to Gram Parsons or A Place To Bury Strangers on the patio.
But I think we're dancing around the real elephant in the room here: "guitarist culture." There's a whole lot of baggage there.
It's a balancing act between truly enjoying your own preferences, and then going one step further and thinking that others ought to feel the same way. I don't mind that 100,000 kids risk dehydration and sunstroke to impoverish themselves watching Kanye at Coachella -- I'm just very grateful to be back in New Mexico, enjoying the night sky and listening to Gram Parsons or A Place To Bury Strangers on the patio.
But I think we're dancing around the real elephant in the room here: "guitarist culture." There's a whole lot of baggage there.
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
^^^^^^^^^ This. I had a colleague during the heyday of the alt-rock explosion who produced a number of albums that did quite well commercially. He was about as 'street cred' as it gets, and at one point I bad-mouthed "MmmmmBop" in his presence.
"Oh, I don't know about that!" he said. He smiled and said "that shit may be the Jackson Five, but the Jackson Five hasn't been done that well in a long time. I'd love to have a song blow up like that."
He didn't really need to wish for much - really, at that point he was at the very upper echelon of producers, and was on quite a hot streak. He also had a tremendous knowledge of music history. But he took things on their own terms, and didn't cast aspersions on fans whom he might have legit seen as less-sophisticated.
"Oh, I don't know about that!" he said. He smiled and said "that shit may be the Jackson Five, but the Jackson Five hasn't been done that well in a long time. I'd love to have a song blow up like that."
He didn't really need to wish for much - really, at that point he was at the very upper echelon of producers, and was on quite a hot streak. He also had a tremendous knowledge of music history. But he took things on their own terms, and didn't cast aspersions on fans whom he might have legit seen as less-sophisticated.
Fumbles
Communist Chocolate Hellhole
I'll work on being more ambivalent about the subject, but sometimes it's like this: I'm going to poke you in the eye once every 30 seconds for a year straight, & you have to remain ambivalent about it, ok? The only things you may say about it are, "ehh whatever", or "this is cool, but it's not for me", any other responses are unbecoming.
I'm all for "either it'll move me, or it goes right through me" (to borrow a Gord Downie phrase), after awhile it's like...ffs enough already, I need to go home & listen to something that is the furthest possible thing from commercial pop music.
To clarify, as I have noticed others have done, I don't hate all pop music.
I don't dismiss any genre, I just hate hearing the same same songs every damn day, but it's part of the territory until, & if I can go back to school. Maybe I should chill out a bit after work when I get home, before I post here. I apologize if anyone got their panties in a knot.
I'm not a hater, really. I just get frustrated that the airwaves only have one type of music all over them, to the point where people may think that " music=pop".
My first record I owned (I was 6, so my mom got it for me ) was Thriller by MJ. Now there is a good example of someone who was part of the machine, yet created great music, & surrounded himself with great musicians, so his songs always had killer grooves, & great musical ideas. Another one I've always liked is Brian Wilson- the way he arranged his songs really was genius, & a truly original sound. I don't know if he knew anything about counterpoint, but he had an ear for it, for sure.
So I've been thinking about this, & I've decided that it's not so much the music, purely, that I dislike, sometimes it's the way it is presented. The strongest cog in the entire modern pop system is easily those few songwriters, such as the above mentioned example, Max Martin who write everything. They would be NOTHING without people like him. & I may even listen to some of his songs if there were versions of them not marketed to kids. Different singers, different arrangements or something.
The kids who listen to his songs should know that it's not always written by the singer, & that it's by the composer who creates the vast majority of the song(s) in the first place. Anything less is unfair to the composer, no matter how much they may get paid.
Why don't they know? is it a secret or something? The emphasis on marketing to youth- therefore they shouldn't know that all their favorite songs were really written by some middle aged guy, not a 20 year old supermodel?
I'm all for "either it'll move me, or it goes right through me" (to borrow a Gord Downie phrase), after awhile it's like...ffs enough already, I need to go home & listen to something that is the furthest possible thing from commercial pop music.
To clarify, as I have noticed others have done, I don't hate all pop music.
I don't dismiss any genre, I just hate hearing the same same songs every damn day, but it's part of the territory until, & if I can go back to school. Maybe I should chill out a bit after work when I get home, before I post here. I apologize if anyone got their panties in a knot.
I'm not a hater, really. I just get frustrated that the airwaves only have one type of music all over them, to the point where people may think that " music=pop".
My first record I owned (I was 6, so my mom got it for me ) was Thriller by MJ. Now there is a good example of someone who was part of the machine, yet created great music, & surrounded himself with great musicians, so his songs always had killer grooves, & great musical ideas. Another one I've always liked is Brian Wilson- the way he arranged his songs really was genius, & a truly original sound. I don't know if he knew anything about counterpoint, but he had an ear for it, for sure.
So I've been thinking about this, & I've decided that it's not so much the music, purely, that I dislike, sometimes it's the way it is presented. The strongest cog in the entire modern pop system is easily those few songwriters, such as the above mentioned example, Max Martin who write everything. They would be NOTHING without people like him. & I may even listen to some of his songs if there were versions of them not marketed to kids. Different singers, different arrangements or something.
The kids who listen to his songs should know that it's not always written by the singer, & that it's by the composer who creates the vast majority of the song(s) in the first place. Anything less is unfair to the composer, no matter how much they may get paid.
Why don't they know? is it a secret or something? The emphasis on marketing to youth- therefore they shouldn't know that all their favorite songs were really written by some middle aged guy, not a 20 year old supermodel?
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vonbladet
r00b
Worse, I've heard that even some TV shows have "writers" on staff to sharpen up the dialogue. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
I feel genuinely bad for anyone who works an environment full of music they don't like or choose, whether it's Justin Bieber or the imminent Wall-to-Wall Christmas Soul-Sucker Spectacular.
Fumbles
Communist Chocolate Hellhole
Peen Simmons
Let’s Get Obtuse!
Fame and marketing are stupid. I am angry because the Svengalis and songwriters deserve more fame and marketing. Think about the children!!!!
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
It's all "commercial pop music," unless it truly is denied any opportunity to find an audience. The only difference is the level of candor of those who want others' approval, and the conditions under which they enjoy receiving it.
speakerjones
my hat is all
I was at a friend's hip-hop show a couple of weeks ago. The crowd was largely made up of 30 -something, some fairly rough looking, underground hip-hop fans. Everybody's doing their own thing, drinking and socializing while the opening DJ plays his underground stuff. Then he drops "Just a Friend". Whole club, on cue, sings along. I was surprised that I even remembered most of the lyrics. Say what you will about about Mr. Markie's talents, but here we are, 27 years later singing his song, just like I was hangin wit my homies at the 8th grade semi-formal dance. The power of a good pop song.
gtrjunior
Wannabe
Or a testament to the masses inability to seek out new music on their own.
Why actually find new fresh music when the music industry big-wigs will tell me what is good....
speakerjones
my hat is all
Well. We were at an underground hip-hop show. By nature of the event, everyone there was checking out fresh new music. The Biz thing was really just nostalgia. It's a super cheesy song, but most there knew it. There's my point, though. It's totally possible to dig Indian flute music, positive hip-hop, math rock, and the occasional Katy Perry tune. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Hubert Stumblin
I ain't even mad.
Full disclosure: I also work in the biz. My job covers the music biz since it's been the music biz (this morning I worked with a piece of media that was 99 years old) and over my nearly 30 years in it I've heard at least a little bit of just about everything. Here's MHO- In every genre there is a small amount of really exceptional music, a very large amount of music that runs the gamut from okay to kinda bleh, and an amount in between those two in size that is really just awful. The thing is different people will put different examples from each of those categories into the others. It really does come down to personal taste or, hopefully, what moves you. Be glad music moves you. I think for most people music is just the sort of the pleasant wall paper of their lives. They like it, but not in the same way that we do. Those are the people that classic rock stations are going for. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of classic rock. But because some of it has been played over and over and over again there are certain songs that I liked by artists I like that I don't need to hear again for the rest of my life. But for those listeners it's "Oh, yeah. I like that song." And then they continue to talk sports over it. I think we're fortunate to be into music on a deeper level. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
gtrjunior
Wannabe
Now THIS post, I agree with.
Btw....are you hiring? I'm a guitar player that has interests ranging from rock to rock. With limited people skills and a bad temper.
I'm sure I'd fit right into the biz.....
Hubert Stumblin
I ain't even mad.
Dude, you could be an instructor in the training department.
